Planes, Profits, Peril (and Why Flying Sucks)

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I just want to tell you both
good luck.

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We're all counting on you.
It's.

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Time for you and me to stand up
for ourselves.

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Welcome to Unwashed and Unruly,
where we deconstruct word

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salads.
Today we're talking about the

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airline industry, unfriendly
skies, profits over safety and

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the race to the bottom.
I'm your host Lola Michaels,

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joined by our black box brainiac
Ezra Saeed.

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Hi, Lola.
Hi, everybody.

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And frequent fire Cam cruise.
Hi, everybody.

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You can find all our episodes on
our website,

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unwashedun-ruly.com.
You can also look for our

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podcast wherever you find your
other podcasts.

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Just type us into the search
engine.

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You can also rate and review our
episode and if you have any

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questions, you can reach us at
contact at unwashedun-ruly.com.

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If you've done any air travel
lately, you know the vibe.

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Pure calculated chaos.
Unaffordable airfare.

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Long lines, delays,
cancellations.

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Terrifying near misses.
Understaffed air traffic towers.

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For nearly 50 years, the
American airline industry has

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been a playground for monopoly
capitalism.

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In this episode, we're tracing
the industry's descent from a

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regulated public utility to an
oligarchy of anarchy.

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It started with the 1978 Airline
Deregulation Act, which promised

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to democratize air travel.
In reality, it handed the keys

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to the BIG4 carriers.
Now Delta, American, United and

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Southwest control 80% of the
sky.

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Airline carriers have mastered
the art of socializing their

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losses and privatizing their
profits, using bankruptcies to

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shred union contracts and
demanding taxpayer bailouts the

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second the market dips.
The structural route was set by

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the biggest union busting attack
in modern history in 1981.

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When the Reagan administration
crushed the Padco strike by

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firing over 11,000, striking air
traffic controllers and

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shackling their leaders, the
government sent a chilling

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message that safety isn't a
public service, it's a cost to

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be minimized.
That neoliberal strategy has

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trickled down into every cockpit
and hanger.

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Regional pilots making poverty
wages, maintenance being

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outsourced to the lowest bidder,
workers being squeezed for a

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leaner bottom line while
passenger safety is compromised.

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The airline industry today is
one of the most despised

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industries for good reason.
As passengers, we endure a

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system where our discomfort is
the business model.

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Crammed into shrinking seats on
jam packed planes while being

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nickeled and dimed by junk fees
for amenities that used to be

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standard, the lack of
reliability and the misery of

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flying are the predictable
outcomes of a system that

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prioritizes stock buybacks over
basic rights.

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Let's start off talking a little
bit about what motivated us to

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do this episode, besides the
fact that Ezra is obsessed with

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airline crashes.
We started to talk about this

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after the incident at LaGuardia
Airport in March when an Air

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Canada Express flight collided
with a Port Authority fire truck

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crossing the runway.
We also kind of curious about

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another tragedy that hasn't been
talked about very frequently

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from last year, January of 2025.
And that was when the American

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Airlines flight collided with a
military helicopter in midair

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over the Potomac River.
And it just seemed like we

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needed to answer this question
about whether or not flying

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under this administration and
with everything that's being

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torn apart and ripped to shreds
is going to get a lot worse.

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Well, I got obsessed with air
travel and air safety beginning

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about 2025 years ago because I
found it a good way to address

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my fear of flying.
When I was younger, I had No

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Fear of flying.
And then suddenly, I don't know,

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something clicked in my brain
and I would ever I would get

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inside an airplane, I would
start thinking gravity will win.

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Gravity will win, which is true,
by the way.

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You realized as an adult that
you were a mortal.

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I think I did.
I think I became more conscious

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of my mortality.
And so I started really

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obsessing over why planes
crashed and why they don't.

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And I actually found the more I
learned about why airline

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crashes happen, the more my fear
of flying subsided.

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Would you say that watching
plane crashes soothe you?

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It's more that once you
understand what causes accidents

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to happen and the fact that it's
notwithstanding all the

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chicanery that happens by the
government and by the airline

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industry, it actually is a very
safe mode of travel and why

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planes crash.
Once you get a sense of that, it

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does soothe you in the sense of
you when you understand

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something and you're more
capable of dealing with your

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fear of it.
Yeah, that actually makes sense,

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even though I was trying to make
fun of you.

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I've been thinking about this a
lot lately because recently the

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TSA went a few months without
getting paid.

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And I think even now they're
they're still only receiving

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partial paychecks.
So that was pretty crazy and

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obviously made air travel a
nightmare.

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And the administration's
response to this was to send ICE

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into airports, and ICE was
pretty much just arresting

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people that they suspected of
being immigrants and creating

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more chaos at an already chaotic
situation.

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So, yeah, we've been talking
about that a lot lately.

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So not just the airplanes
themselves, but air travel and

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the air industry.
And of course, you know, I've,

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I've always got my eyes on the
Tik Toks.

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And there's a steady stream of
people getting into fights,

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people getting kicked off of
planes and an occasional

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debuting of a seat that makes
everybody crash out because it's

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horrific.
So since the airline industry is

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a good barometer of the dystopia
we live in, I think it's

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something we all kind of keep
our eyes on.

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So one of the things that is
kind of critical to get off the

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agenda whenever you're talking
about what happened to the

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airline industry and where we
are today is deregulation.

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Everything changed with airline
deregulation in 1978.

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And we will talk a little bit
more about what the period of

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air travel looked like before
1978, you know, from the period

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of propeller planes to the jet
age.

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But I think it's important to
look at how the industry wasn't

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this cutthroat survival of the
fittest race that we see today.

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And a lot of experts point out
that the airline model operated

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much more like a regulated
public utility.

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So from 1938 to 1978, the Civil
Aeronautics Board treated flight

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as essential infrastructure.
And so during that time, the

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government controlled all major
aspects of the industry.

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The government regulated routes.
It regulated fares, which new

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airlines could enter, mergers
and acquisitions.

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It had authority over schedules.
I'm not saying it was the golden

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age.
There were a lot of accidents

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and problems and air travel was
definitely for well to do

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passengers in terms of
affordability, but there was

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definitely a different standard
of service and safety

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regulations and a lot more
stability.

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So Fast forward 1978, everything
changed with deregulation.

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This was a major bipartisan
project.

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It was signed by President Jimmy
Carter, championed by Senator

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Ted Kennedy and economist Alfred
Kahn.

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Basically they argued that the
government regulated system was

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they called it a cartel and that
removing price and route

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controls would spark massive
competition and ticket prices

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would go down and it finally air
travel would be like affordable

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for the average person.
And they kept on projecting this

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image that there would be 200
competing airlines and you know,

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that they would all be trying to
provide improved and efficient

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and cheaper service.
Now instead, when we look at

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what we have today, we've
inherited this landscape of

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monopoly capitalism at like the
most naked, where you have just

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a handful 4 dominant carriers
which have like hollowed out

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regional service, crushed union
wages, weaponized junk fees, and

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our infrastructure is completely
brittle and kind of prone to

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these failures.
So how did we get here to this

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unreliable and miserable system
we have today?

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Well, let me begin by pointing
out a couple of things.

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One is the fact that airline
travel today is safer than it

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was before 1978 has nothing to
do with deregulation.

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People will point to that and
say, oh look, deregulation help

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that.
It did not.

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Fundamentally, the reason
airline travel is today safer is

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because the technology has
massively improved.

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If you look at most accidents,
most accidents, not all, they're

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the result of a chain of events.
And usually the decisive parts

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of that chain is human error.
So the introduction of better

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technology that canmore remove
the potential for human error is

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the fundamental reason why air
travel has become a lot safer.

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And in terms of it being a
cartel, OK, it was a government

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cartel, whatever it is today, a
different kind of cartel.

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It is a cartel of half a dozen
corporations who basically have

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the entire flying public by the
short hairs and can do to them

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whatever they want to do.
I think it's also important to

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look at the time when the
deregulation happened.

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This was a period of the 1970s
where you really had the mass

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deindustrialization of America
taking place and the dollar had

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lost.
Its a good chunk of its

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hegemony.
It's still hegemonic, but it had

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lost a good chunk of it when
they went off the gold standard

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a few years earlier.
It was coming off the defeat in

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Vietnam.
And this was a way to basically,

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in their mind, shift the
responsibility of travel off the

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government and off the idea that
the government should care about

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this as a public utility to a
bunch of private companies that

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somehow are going to be self
regulating and be regulated at

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some level by the FAA.
But basically, the fundamental

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thing was safety and air travel
was just going to become the

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province of the free market.
And with that came a race not to

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the top, but to the bottom.
And The funny thing about it is

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all these companies that want to
do regulation and fought for it

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kept talking about the free
market and laissez faire and

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let's let the market decide who
wins and loses.

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But every goddamn time the
market went against them, let's

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say 911, the Great Recession
during COVID, they came like a

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bunch of snorers to the
government with their hands out

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saying give me taxpayer money,
save our industry.

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In other words, all this talk
about laissez faire and the

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market and letting it all work
out.

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It's basically profits are
privatized and losses are

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socialized.
It's socialism for the

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bourgeoisie.
So that means that taxpayer

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dollars are already subsidizing
the airlines.

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But without the regulation that
used to be there, right.

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And and and one last thing I
think about the driving down a

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prices.
Well, there's two ways you can

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look at it.
One, prices were already on the

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way down and traffic was already
increasing before deregulation,

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so it simply continued A trend
that was already there.

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Second of all, yeah, you can say
it is cheaper, but all the

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things you used to get as part
of the package of buying an

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airline ticket, like assigned
seating, like luggage, a meal, a

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drink, all these things are now
extras.

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So they nickel and dime you.
And I'm not sure how much

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cheaper it is at the end of the
day, once you take in all this

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stuff and suddenly you find
yourself probably spending a

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large chunk of money.
I mean, the way these guys would

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have it is if they could they
just strap you to a wing and

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ship you off.
It's a total bait and switch.

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And you're right about the price
question because, well, first of

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all, the euphemism that they
call this is unbundling, which

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is basically like all the things
that you used to get for free,

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we now charge you for.
And this is actually how the

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airlines made a lot of money,
right?

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Like in 2023, they made $33
billion from these fees.

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Like the baggage fees selection,
onboard amenities?

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Yeah, even stuff that seems like
logical, it's like, oh, you

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bought the ticket?
It's like, do you want to sit

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down on the plane?
Do you want to breathe?

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Do you want to bring a bag on
the plane?

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It's like, yeah, of course.
I'd like to, like, sit down on

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the plane and breathe air and
bring a bag, Yeah.

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It's Do you want an extra inch
of space?

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Since the 1980s, the average
distance between seat backs has

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shrunk from 35 inches to around
28 on most carriers.

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It's become like almost like a
meme that gets asked around.

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Is it impolite to lean your seat
back?

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That was never a question
before.

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One of my favorite parts of
doing this episode is

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discovering that air travel
wasn't always so miserable.

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00:13:23,640 --> 00:13:26,840
It was as luxurious as they say
it was.

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00:13:27,160 --> 00:13:29,720
So back in the day, like you
said, the seats were bigger.

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They reclined farther.
In the 50s, some airlines

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introduced seats that reclined
completely into beds.

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00:13:37,120 --> 00:13:41,120
Also, it was common for there to
be a lounge where you can kind

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00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,120
of stand up and walk around,
grab a drink from a bar.

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00:13:44,360 --> 00:13:48,360
So yeah, the planes have changed
so much over time and flying has

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00:13:48,360 --> 00:13:52,040
changed so much overtime.
I was reading this article about

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00:13:52,040 --> 00:13:54,360
an airline that had a piano
player.

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00:13:54,360 --> 00:13:57,920
Like they legit had a piano on
the plane and they would have

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00:13:57,920 --> 00:14:01,240
like, music entertainment.
So you can like, hang out in the

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00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:05,120
lounge and smoke your pipe and
like, listen to live piano.

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00:14:05,320 --> 00:14:08,800
They also, like Ezra was saying,
food was a big deal on planes.

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00:14:09,120 --> 00:14:12,760
In the 1930s, Pan Am actually
started putting stoves onto

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00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:14,320
planes.
So there was an oven on the

245
00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:17,280
plane where they would cook for
you live, man, and they would

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00:14:17,280 --> 00:14:20,800
bring carts down the aisle where
they would carve roast beef or

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00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,760
ham in front of you.
In the 50s, American Airline

248
00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:27,240
came out with a cookbook that
was popular because people

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00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,800
wanted their food to taste like
airline food.

250
00:14:29,880 --> 00:14:32,320
So yeah, it was super, super
luxurious.

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00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,360
Another thing that you guys
mentioned is that it was more

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00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,320
expensive.
Like it wasn't really for

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00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:39,680
commoners to have this
experience.

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00:14:39,680 --> 00:14:42,840
It like I read something that
was like a ticket from Chicago

255
00:14:42,840 --> 00:14:46,880
to New York was equivalent to
what is almost like $2000 today.

256
00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,000
So it was super expensive.
You were paying a lot for this

257
00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:52,400
experience.
But yeah, dude, it was fucking

258
00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:55,760
chill.
And before World War 2, most air

259
00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,880
flight attendants were guys.
But then after World War Two, it

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00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:01,360
became all women.
And then that also became a

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00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:04,480
selling point because like
during price fixing, the way

262
00:15:04,480 --> 00:15:07,040
that the airlines would appeal
to you was through amenities.

263
00:15:07,040 --> 00:15:10,320
So one of the things they would
offer is a bunch of hot ladies

264
00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:13,560
and like, airlines became the
Hooters of the sky.

265
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:17,480
And they would hire young women
with a certain body type.

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00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:19,200
They would give them skimpy
outfits.

267
00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,480
There was an American Airlines
executive flight that was only

268
00:15:23,480 --> 00:15:26,800
for men.
And one of the ways they would

269
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:30,440
try to encourage and recruit
women to take these jobs is by

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00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:32,920
telling them that they would get
a husband in no time.

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00:15:32,920 --> 00:15:35,520
And like, within three years,
you'll be married girls.

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00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:40,120
And the emphasis really shifted
from safety to service because

273
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:43,920
during the early days of flying,
airline flight attendants

274
00:15:43,920 --> 00:15:47,400
actually had to be certified
nurses because, you know, it was

275
00:15:47,400 --> 00:15:49,640
like an acknowledgement that
this was like this dangerous,

276
00:15:49,640 --> 00:15:51,880
crazy thing and they were part
of keeping it safe.

277
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:55,960
And then all of a sudden, the
skills went from being somebody

278
00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,320
who could handle an emergency
and, like, provide medical

279
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:01,520
assistance to somebody who
could, like, make you a nice

280
00:16:01,560 --> 00:16:05,000
drink, you know, somebody who
looked really good in a pair of

281
00:16:05,000 --> 00:16:07,720
heels.
So yeah, there became like, this

282
00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,720
shift away from safety and more
towards, like, this elegant

283
00:16:11,720 --> 00:16:13,040
service.
And.

284
00:16:13,120 --> 00:16:14,840
Yeah.
But I also do want to make a

285
00:16:14,840 --> 00:16:19,640
point that it used to be very
oppressive to women because it

286
00:16:19,640 --> 00:16:23,760
used to be that if you gained
over a certain weight, you could

287
00:16:23,760 --> 00:16:26,680
not be a flight attendant.
If you got married, you could

288
00:16:26,680 --> 00:16:31,400
not be a flight attendant.
Men were, as you said after the

289
00:16:31,400 --> 00:16:35,160
Second World War, were basically
out of the industry as flight

290
00:16:35,160 --> 00:16:38,280
attendants completely, but it
really was also highly

291
00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,240
sexualized, highly objectifying,
and very oppressive to women.

292
00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:45,080
Of course, if you fit within
their criteria could be very

293
00:16:45,080 --> 00:16:48,600
glamorous, but you had to be
absolutely sure that you never

294
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:51,920
stepped outside the bounds of
the criteria A. 100% super,

295
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:55,840
super oppressive and even if you
fit the model, it was really

296
00:16:55,920 --> 00:16:59,080
stressful and oppressive.
One of the things that I read is

297
00:16:59,080 --> 00:17:01,360
that they would measure your
weight, waist and your bust and

298
00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,400
your hips, and if you didn't
fall within the measurements,

299
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:07,079
you would get suspended until
you did or you would lose your

300
00:17:07,079 --> 00:17:08,880
job.
We talked a little bit about

301
00:17:08,880 --> 00:17:10,920
shrinking seats.
Every year.

302
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,720
You hear they're like taking an
inch here, taking an inch there,

303
00:17:13,720 --> 00:17:16,680
taking a centimeter here.
Didn't you show me something a

304
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:20,160
few weeks ago where they were
going to propose standing seats?

305
00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:22,880
Oh yes.
This is the latest nightmare.

306
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:25,200
They are proposing standing
seats.

307
00:17:25,480 --> 00:17:28,560
One of the companies that's been
linked to it is Ryanair and

308
00:17:28,560 --> 00:17:32,320
Ryanair is a European airline.
And they're saying that these

309
00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,240
standing seats would be for
flights that are two hours or

310
00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,560
less.
And essentially you're like kind

311
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,640
of like leaning onto this seat
back and there's like a little

312
00:17:41,640 --> 00:17:43,360
thing on your crotch.
So this is going to be really

313
00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:45,480
great for men.
I particularly they're going to

314
00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:48,640
love it, but they're they're
trying to say that this is going

315
00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:51,480
to be pricing wise comparable to
bus fare.

316
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:54,240
So they're talking about flights
that are like 9 bucks, but you

317
00:17:54,240 --> 00:17:57,720
have to stand up.
And the people are rightly going

318
00:17:57,720 --> 00:18:00,600
crazy about this online.
And I have some comments here if

319
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,440
you guys want to hear what the
plebs are saying about these new

320
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:06,800
designs.
Dumpling dot delight under score

321
00:18:06,800 --> 00:18:09,360
UK says completely dystopian and
scary.

322
00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:13,640
This is tragic.
Wellin is its surfboard says I'm

323
00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:15,840
telling you now so you're not
surprised in the future.

324
00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:19,160
Just in case, if you let this
happen and pay $9 for these

325
00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:22,200
seats, in a few years all the
coach seats will be standing and

326
00:18:22,200 --> 00:18:24,920
you will be paying full price.
Sitting will be only for the

327
00:18:24,920 --> 00:18:26,520
wealthy.
Just a fair warning.

328
00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:29,280
And I have to say, I kind of
agree with the sentiments of

329
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:30,840
this post.
Yeah, totally.

330
00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:34,240
I don't think I was exaggerating
when I said if they could get

331
00:18:34,240 --> 00:18:36,120
away with it they just strap you
to a wing.

332
00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,720
And this is the perfect post
that's in line with that, Ezra

333
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:42,760
the Joe Joyner says.
What if we dehydrate the people

334
00:18:42,760 --> 00:18:45,680
down into tiny sponges and then
when we land, put them in water

335
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:48,560
to expand them again?
That's brilliant.

336
00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,240
That's that's just that's.
Brilliant.

337
00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:54,280
Yeah, and another seat design
that has made the rounds online

338
00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:57,280
that's connected with Airbus is
this double Decker seating.

339
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:00,080
Have you guys seen this where
one person sits on a second row

340
00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:01,840
and then there's another row
beneath them?

341
00:19:02,120 --> 00:19:04,280
It sounds miserable.
Yeah, it sounds miserable.

342
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:07,720
And all of the comments are
exactly as you would guess.

343
00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:11,640
Ryan Gromida says going to be
farting on everyone.

344
00:19:11,640 --> 00:19:14,000
So sorry.
And the next comment says pink

345
00:19:14,000 --> 00:19:17,080
eye for everyone.
So yeah, people are not excited

346
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,200
about this.
And one of the, one of the

347
00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:21,120
interesting things I've noticed
is that whenever these things

348
00:19:21,120 --> 00:19:24,640
drop, they don't drop in
correlation with any airline in

349
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:26,520
particular.
It's just kind of like vaguely

350
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:28,200
like people are thinking about
this.

351
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:31,240
So I almost feel like it's a
like it's a temperature check.

352
00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:33,440
You know, they're kind of doing
a soft launch, seeing what

353
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,000
people will say, seeing if
people will accept it.

354
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:40,080
And while I hear all of this
negative talk about it and like

355
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,560
this complete rejection, I fear,
I fear in my heart that if they

356
00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:47,400
come out with the standing plane
that people will buy it just

357
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:51,040
because people are so desperate,
Everybody's so broke that

358
00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,320
they'll just like take what they
can get that fits within their

359
00:19:53,320 --> 00:19:55,480
budget.
So I think if they make the $9

360
00:19:55,480 --> 00:19:57,800
standing seat, people will buy
it unfortunately.

361
00:19:57,800 --> 00:19:59,960
Yeah, that's how capitalism
grounds you down.

362
00:20:00,040 --> 00:20:02,520
Yeah, I remember seeing the
standing seat stuff from as far

363
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:05,440
back as over 10 years ago
they've been floating this

364
00:20:05,440 --> 00:20:07,480
around for.
A while, yeah, yeah, exactly.

365
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:11,520
And the CEO of Ryanair back in
2012 had an interview where he

366
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:13,600
mentioned standing seats.
So yeah, it has been.

367
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:15,360
Around, yeah, this is, it's been
around for a while.

368
00:20:15,360 --> 00:20:18,680
I think this time around they
really will implement it and

369
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:21,720
yeah, people will buy it because
it is cheaper and people,

370
00:20:21,720 --> 00:20:25,040
whether in the US or in Europe,
are just trying to get by.

371
00:20:25,240 --> 00:20:27,360
You still need to travel.
Yeah, people don't have a

372
00:20:27,360 --> 00:20:29,440
choice.
Yeah, Well, definitely in the US

373
00:20:29,440 --> 00:20:32,000
there's no other options for
like high speed travel

374
00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:35,200
whatsoever.
And the other thing is whenever

375
00:20:35,440 --> 00:20:38,920
these conditions have become so
miserable and so deplorable,

376
00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:41,920
there's always going to be
fights on airplanes and like

377
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:44,200
quote UN quote, unruly
passengers or whatever.

378
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:47,760
And it's like we just dealt with
a three hour delay, the

379
00:20:47,760 --> 00:20:51,280
cancellation, you know, all
these things like, and you're

380
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:54,120
trying to get to emergency
family situation and then

381
00:20:54,120 --> 00:20:56,360
there's weather things and then
you're losing money on top of

382
00:20:56,360 --> 00:20:58,080
it, like, yeah, so.
Flying.

383
00:20:58,320 --> 00:21:01,400
Flying is like a psychological
challenge, and a plane is

384
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:05,920
essentially a flying powder keg.
We have to be around strangers.

385
00:21:06,080 --> 00:21:10,040
We're expected to be still and
be quiet and to share our space.

386
00:21:10,240 --> 00:21:13,480
We have to be around people we
disagree with politically.

387
00:21:13,640 --> 00:21:16,360
One of the interesting things I
saw was there's all of these

388
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:20,560
studies that show that arguments
and fights spike around

389
00:21:20,560 --> 00:21:22,960
political events.
So around Brexit, there was a

390
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:26,680
bunch of fights on UK planes in
the US, there's it was a bunch

391
00:21:26,680 --> 00:21:30,080
around the election.
So just like being around a

392
00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,120
bunch of people tightly that you
don't know and that you don't

393
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:35,160
agree with stresses people the
fuck out.

394
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:37,800
Another thing that I saw that
was interesting is there's a

395
00:21:37,800 --> 00:21:41,040
psychological impact to having
to walk through first class.

396
00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:44,240
And there was like an increase
on the number of fights where

397
00:21:44,240 --> 00:21:46,760
people have to walk through
first class in order to reach

398
00:21:46,760 --> 00:21:48,440
their seat.
Because it just pisses you off

399
00:21:48,880 --> 00:21:52,760
to see what you're not getting.
And like this big, beautiful,

400
00:21:52,760 --> 00:21:55,720
wide seat and you're going to go
to your little fucking box that

401
00:21:55,720 --> 00:21:57,320
you got to sit in.
It's so terrible.

402
00:21:57,480 --> 00:22:00,480
But we all have to be civil.
Oh yes, I know.

403
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:04,960
So to add insult to injury, the
transportation secretary, Sean

404
00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:08,800
Duffy has a message for the
American people and it's you

405
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:11,800
look disgusting when you travel
on a plane and you act like a

406
00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,800
God damn animal.
So his message is not that the

407
00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:17,480
airline should do better, but
the passengers need to do

408
00:22:17,480 --> 00:22:19,080
better.
The airline companies are

409
00:22:19,080 --> 00:22:21,640
allowed to treat you like shit
and you should have a smile on

410
00:22:21,640 --> 00:22:24,400
your face while they do it.
If you check out the Department

411
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,640
of Transportation, there is a
list of questions that you can

412
00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:32,040
ask yourself as a passenger to
decide what are you doing to

413
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:34,560
make flying better.
Do you guys want to hear some of

414
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:36,680
these beautiful questions?
Affirmative.

415
00:22:36,720 --> 00:22:38,360
Let's let's think deeply about
this.

416
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,400
This is on the list.
Are you helping a pregnant woman

417
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:44,640
or the elderly with placing
their bags in the overhead bin?

418
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,160
I'm really short so it's
actually really hard for me to

419
00:22:47,240 --> 00:22:48,320
put things.
Well, you know what?

420
00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:49,880
Maybe you should wear taller
shoes.

421
00:22:49,880 --> 00:22:51,880
And that's the perfect segue for
our next one.

422
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:56,880
Are you dressing with respect?
So you pajama pants, hoodie

423
00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,680
wearing hoes fix it up.
We need makeup, we need dress

424
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:04,400
pants, we need Blazers.
This this going around like a

425
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:07,720
like a schlub, not under this
administration the next.

426
00:23:07,720 --> 00:23:10,960
One, it gets so wrinkled.
Yeah, Are you keeping control of

427
00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:13,400
your children and helping them
through the airport?

428
00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,800
All these poor parents don't
have it fucking hard enough.

429
00:23:16,160 --> 00:23:19,000
Are you saying thank you to your
flight attendants?

430
00:23:19,520 --> 00:23:22,120
Next one, are you saying please
and thank you in general?

431
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,840
These are legitimate questions
on the website.

432
00:23:24,840 --> 00:23:28,800
And I want to play this clip for
you of Sean Duffy giving this

433
00:23:28,800 --> 00:23:31,840
message to the American people
about how disrespectful that it

434
00:23:31,840 --> 00:23:34,720
is that they dress so poorly to
travel and how they should

435
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,640
really try to do a little
better.

436
00:23:38,720 --> 00:23:42,920
I think again, I, I call this
just maybe dressing with some

437
00:23:42,920 --> 00:23:47,120
respect, you know, whether it's
a pair of jeans and A, and A,

438
00:23:47,160 --> 00:23:49,960
and a decent shirt, I would, I
would encourage people to maybe

439
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:52,480
dress a little better, which
encourages us, encourages us to

440
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:54,400
maybe behave all a little
better.

441
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:58,440
Let's try not to wear slippers
and, and, and pajamas as we come

442
00:23:58,440 --> 00:24:00,360
to the airport.
I think that's positive.

443
00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:04,000
If we can help someone as we're
getting on the aircraft that

444
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:06,960
might need some help putting
their bag in the overhead bin

445
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:10,640
and you're a little strong or a
little buffer you can lift in,

446
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,920
you know, stand up and, you
know, offer to grab that bag and

447
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:16,480
put it up for someone who's
having a more difficult time and

448
00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:20,240
common courtesy and civility, I
think is going to work well.

449
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,200
I love learning about manners
from the US government the.

450
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,080
Airline companies squeeze every
single penny they can, and the

451
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:30,160
government's message to you is
to suck it up.

452
00:24:30,600 --> 00:24:33,760
Well, because of the fact that
Ezra has looked at so many plane

453
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,120
crashes in the course of
history, I want to go over some

454
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:39,160
of the questions about safety
and accidents.

455
00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:43,160
And I feel like there's a lot of
safety improvements that have

456
00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:46,400
happened over the last several
decades, but that are mostly

457
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,560
reactive.
Like, they're only implemented

458
00:24:48,560 --> 00:24:53,320
after a tragedy happens and
usually after, like, something

459
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:56,120
that makes the status quo, like
politically or financially

460
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,960
untenable.
So what are some of the, like,

461
00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:02,440
aviation regulations that have
been written in blood?

462
00:25:02,480 --> 00:25:06,000
Like which ones have been
historical turning points that

463
00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:07,960
the industry really learned
from?

464
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:11,200
I think there's, if we were to
do this, you could go on for a

465
00:25:11,200 --> 00:25:14,880
very long time.
So I kind of chose 5 or so

466
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:19,480
crashes that I think have made
air travel considerably safer

467
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,040
over the course of time, where
in some cases, I think some of

468
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,920
those you could argue could have
been seen in advance and some of

469
00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:31,400
them really were a reaction to
something that they just didn't

470
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,800
understand until it happened.
So the first one that comes to

471
00:25:34,800 --> 00:25:39,600
mind is the beginning of the jet
age, which is post World War 2.

472
00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:43,480
Before that, basically all
civilian planes were propeller

473
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,680
planes and propeller planes only
travel to a certain altitude.

474
00:25:48,000 --> 00:25:51,920
And so pressurization of the
cabin was either non existent or

475
00:25:51,920 --> 00:25:53,960
very minor.
And when you have, when you

476
00:25:53,960 --> 00:25:56,680
think about pressurization of
the cabin, think of it this way

477
00:25:56,680 --> 00:26:01,640
that when you fly above let's
say 10,020 thousand up to 30,000

478
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:05,280
feet, the oxygen is very thin.
You have to pressurize the cabin

479
00:26:05,280 --> 00:26:07,640
so people can breathe.
When you pressurize the cabin,

480
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:11,120
it literally increases the cabin
from the inside because you're

481
00:26:11,120 --> 00:26:13,200
putting in air.
It's like swelling.

482
00:26:13,960 --> 00:26:16,080
Exactly.
And then when you depressurize,

483
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:19,600
it decreases.
And so the metal fatigue that

484
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,200
happens to the body of the plane
is very real.

485
00:26:22,640 --> 00:26:27,040
There was a real race after the
war to introduce jets as opposed

486
00:26:27,040 --> 00:26:29,360
to propeller planes to the
market.

487
00:26:29,960 --> 00:26:33,160
And one of the things you have
to bear in mind is Britain after

488
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,440
the war was a definitively
declining empire and they saw

489
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:43,040
the race to introduce the
passenger jet as something that

490
00:26:43,040 --> 00:26:45,080
could boost their position in
the world.

491
00:26:45,360 --> 00:26:50,200
So the de Havilland Comet was
introduced in the early 1950s.

492
00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:53,960
It was a sleek, beautiful
looking plane, but it's started

493
00:26:53,960 --> 00:26:57,400
suffering from some very strange
accidents where it would

494
00:26:57,400 --> 00:27:00,800
disintegrate in mid air, which
is not something that should

495
00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:03,920
normally happen to an airplane.
Yeah, that's wild.

496
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,120
And what they discovered was the
way they designed planes before

497
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:11,760
the jet age is the windows were
really big and a square.

498
00:27:11,760 --> 00:27:14,600
So you can look out the window
because it's a beautiful sight.

499
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:18,160
You know you're flying.
Well, if you ever study Roman

500
00:27:18,160 --> 00:27:21,440
architecture, one of the things
that stands out out is the arch.

501
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:23,880
Like if you look at a Roman
aqueduct, it's a series of

502
00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,280
arches and the aqueduct is above
it.

503
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,200
And why?
Why arches?

504
00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800
Because they can withstand
pressure and weight.

505
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:35,200
Square windows cannot square
windows.

506
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:39,120
Basically, you start getting
these fatigue cracks into the

507
00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,000
body of the plane and every time
you pressurize and depressurize,

508
00:27:44,000 --> 00:27:47,680
pressurize, depressurize,
pressurize, depressurize, at a

509
00:27:47,680 --> 00:27:51,360
certain point that little cracks
become bigger and literally the

510
00:27:51,360 --> 00:27:54,120
plane starts disintegrating in
midair, which is.

511
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:55,520
Terrifying.
So.

512
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,280
So is literally the shape of the
windows.

513
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,200
It was literally the shape of
the windows, and it's why to

514
00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,400
this day windows are Oval.
They're arches.

515
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,600
Oh man, that's so crazy.
So that was what year was that?

516
00:28:07,320 --> 00:28:11,200
The real discovery was in 1954
and that was the basically the

517
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,120
death of the de Havilland Comet
and the death of Britain as a

518
00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:16,040
player in this game.
Womp womp.

519
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,400
There was another crash between
two airplanes, 2 passenger

520
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:24,200
planes in the US in 1956 where
they hit each other midair,

521
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:28,720
which is kind of terrifying, but
also almost unheard of.

522
00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:33,520
And it and what they used to
have before this crash was

523
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:36,720
basically fly by sight.
You're flying almost like you

524
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,800
would drive, you're looking out
for traffic and you're going and

525
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,280
it's like a big air, Big Sky
with room for everybody.

526
00:28:43,280 --> 00:28:46,320
Well, not really.
If you have two planes that are

527
00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,360
in the same altitude over the
same region, they're going to

528
00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,640
hit each other.
And when they do, they crash.

529
00:28:51,640 --> 00:28:54,160
And, and so that was the end of
fly by sight.

530
00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,840
And that was something they
genuinely learned out of that.

531
00:28:56,880 --> 00:28:59,760
You know, the Big Blue sky is
not big enough to allow for

532
00:28:59,760 --> 00:29:01,000
things like.
That to happen, that's why they

533
00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:03,240
have, that's why they have car
lanes on freeways.

534
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:08,120
So the next one that I picked
was it's known as the Tenerife

535
00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:11,760
or Tenerife how you say it, in
the Canary Islands airport

536
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:16,560
disaster in 1977.
And this was I think to this

537
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:21,400
day, the biggest loss of life in
airplane crashes outside of 911.

538
00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,680
And what happened is there was
some kind of military attack on

539
00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:29,560
one of the Canary Islands bigger
airports.

540
00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,080
And so they diverted all these
planes to a much smaller airport

541
00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:35,960
in Tenerife that includes like
the giant 740 sevens.

542
00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:38,920
Now, that airport wasn't really
designed to handle that much

543
00:29:38,920 --> 00:29:41,640
traffic and there's really
there's only one runway.

544
00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:45,200
And so to take off, planes have
to cross the runway.

545
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:49,320
And so air traffic controller
gave a Pan Am plane, 747

546
00:29:49,320 --> 00:29:53,800
permission to cross the runway.
And air traffic control was not

547
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:56,280
like you can argue was not as
clear.

548
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:59,880
But the KLM plane, which is a
Dutch company, was not given

549
00:29:59,880 --> 00:30:03,120
permission to take off.
But the captain interpreted what

550
00:30:03,120 --> 00:30:05,560
was said to mean you can take
off.

551
00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:09,040
And there was a lot of fog.
And so he just went into the

552
00:30:09,040 --> 00:30:11,520
take off role.
And as soon as he cuts through

553
00:30:11,520 --> 00:30:14,320
the fog, he sees the Pan Am
plane right in front of him.

554
00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:18,240
He tries to take off really
quickly to avoid it.

555
00:30:18,400 --> 00:30:21,680
That doesn't make it and
something close to 600 people

556
00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,480
die because both planes
basically crash into each other.

557
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:27,960
That's so sad.
The copilot kept asking the

558
00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:30,520
captain, did we really get
permission to take off?

559
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:33,040
And the captain says it's my
plane, I'm taking off.

560
00:30:33,520 --> 00:30:34,160
Damn.
Wow.

561
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:37,520
Jesus basically saying I
interpreted as permission.

562
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:40,640
I'm taking off.
I don't care what you know, Be

563
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:42,920
quiet.
And yeah, also don't question my

564
00:30:42,920 --> 00:30:45,160
authority.
The lesson they learned out of

565
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:49,040
that is this is idea of crew
resource management and I know

566
00:30:49,040 --> 00:30:52,360
that there's a lot of work still
to be done on this, but the idea

567
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:54,680
being the captain is not a God
that.

568
00:30:54,680 --> 00:30:56,880
The other people have veto
power.

569
00:30:57,320 --> 00:30:59,680
Or or.
Checks and balances or

570
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:00,600
something?
Exactly.

571
00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,480
I mean, a captain is, at the end
of the day, the captain, whoever

572
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,040
has control, has control.
It's not a democracy.

573
00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:12,200
But it was to encourage the Co
pilots and the flight engineers

574
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:15,920
and other crew on the plane to
be able to speak up and tell a

575
00:31:15,920 --> 00:31:19,200
captain shut up.
We did not get permission to

576
00:31:19,200 --> 00:31:20,520
take off.
Double so.

577
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,320
We're not taking off.
Yeah.

578
00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:25,760
So that's that's why we have
captains who listen sometimes,

579
00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:29,640
sometimes round windows, lanes
in the sky, Yeah.

580
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,160
Yeah.
And the lanes in the sky is also

581
00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:37,280
maintaining contact with ATC and
being rerouted from one ATC to

582
00:31:37,280 --> 00:31:40,560
another to another to another,
so that you are informing air

583
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:43,680
traffic control of your
location, your altitude, your

584
00:31:43,680 --> 00:31:46,440
speed.
And then if air traffic control

585
00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,360
tells you to go up a certain
amount, go down a certain

586
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:52,120
amount, you know you want to
follow that direction.

587
00:31:52,320 --> 00:31:55,960
So let's move into some of the
completely preventable accidents

588
00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:57,920
and collisions.
And there are plenty of them,

589
00:31:57,960 --> 00:31:59,480
like some of these engineering
failures.

590
00:31:59,480 --> 00:32:01,720
Or, you know, that's just one
part of the story.

591
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:06,240
But then you have monopoly
capitalism with its fangs, which

592
00:32:06,240 --> 00:32:09,480
is degrading labor and
outsourcing these key parts of

593
00:32:09,480 --> 00:32:11,720
maintenance, basically to
increase profits.

594
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,360
That means limited oversight,
cutting corners on training, and

595
00:32:16,360 --> 00:32:19,320
that has led to really fatal
disasters.

596
00:32:20,160 --> 00:32:24,160
One of the ones that we wanted
to take up here was the 1979

597
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:27,880
crash of American Airlines
Flight 191 at O'Hare.

598
00:32:27,880 --> 00:32:30,520
So this is one year after
deregulation.

599
00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:34,240
What I heard from about this
crash is that the company was

600
00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:38,480
trying to save like 200 man
hours per aircraft.

601
00:32:38,480 --> 00:32:42,920
And so they tried to develop
some maintenance procedure that

602
00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,360
used a forklift to remove the
engine and the pylon as a single

603
00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:48,520
unit.
And it caused all the structural

604
00:32:48,520 --> 00:32:54,360
damage that led to the engine
ripping off the wing during

605
00:32:54,360 --> 00:32:57,480
takeoff.
So this was one of the ones that

606
00:32:57,680 --> 00:33:01,200
was like really clearly
completely preventable.

607
00:33:01,360 --> 00:33:03,040
Yeah, it's exactly what you
described.

608
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:06,640
The engine manufacturers and the
manufacturers, the plane came up

609
00:33:06,640 --> 00:33:10,640
with a procedure to safely take
off the engine, to do repair

610
00:33:10,640 --> 00:33:13,840
work on the engine.
And you are supposed to remove

611
00:33:13,960 --> 00:33:18,280
in a multi step process the
engine from the pylon and then

612
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:22,280
remove the pylon from the wing.
And then you do the repairs and

613
00:33:22,280 --> 00:33:25,400
then you and you're supposed to
put them back on step by step in

614
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,880
a very careful way.
Certainly not a goddamn

615
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:29,680
forklift.
Forklift.

616
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:33,080
Yeah, let me guess, using the
forklift was probably cheaper

617
00:33:33,080 --> 00:33:34,920
and faster than doing it the
correct way.

618
00:33:35,080 --> 00:33:37,840
It was definitely cheaper and
faster, but American Airlines,

619
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,480
in their infinite wisdom, kept
the engine and the pylon

620
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,720
connected to one another and
just guided it down off the wing

621
00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,840
on a goddamn forklift, did
whatever work they needed to do

622
00:33:46,840 --> 00:33:50,120
on the engine, and then guided
them both back up on the wing

623
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:52,600
with a forklift.
And then tided back on.

624
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:58,120
So when that plane was taking
off in 1979 from Chicago O'Hare

625
00:33:58,120 --> 00:34:02,040
Airport, if the engine had
simply fallen off the wing, this

626
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:06,720
was a 3A3 engine plane.
If the engine had simply fallen

627
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,600
off the wing, it's difficult,
but completely recoverable.

628
00:34:09,600 --> 00:34:12,320
That plane could fly on 2
engines no problem.

629
00:34:12,679 --> 00:34:14,280
Or at least make a safe landing,
yeah?

630
00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:16,080
Yeah, you know, you wouldn't
continue to fly.

631
00:34:16,080 --> 00:34:18,719
You come back for an emergency
landing, but you you should be

632
00:34:18,719 --> 00:34:21,320
able to make it just fine.
But but that's not what

633
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,960
happened.
What happened is the engine,

634
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:27,400
rather than just falling off the
wing onto the ground, flipped

635
00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,960
over the wing and in the process
sheared a whole chunk of the top

636
00:34:31,960 --> 00:34:34,159
of the wing and with it all the
hydraulics.

637
00:34:34,159 --> 00:34:37,320
Now, what are the hydraulics?
The hydraulics are what controls

638
00:34:37,320 --> 00:34:40,120
the plane.
And so when a pilot turns left,

639
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:43,320
it's hydraulics that tell the
plane turn left, left or turns

640
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:44,840
right.
It's hydraulics that tell the

641
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,320
plane to turn right.
And so when that happened in the

642
00:34:48,800 --> 00:34:51,800
flight voice recorder, you could
hear the captain tell the

643
00:34:51,800 --> 00:34:54,400
copilot, I've lost all my
displays.

644
00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:56,360
It just cut off.
He cannot see.

645
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:59,000
He was blind, basically.
He had no displays.

646
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,400
That's because he's sitting on
the left and it was on the left

647
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:04,880
side that the engine ripped off.
The copilot could still see his

648
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,320
displays and it's going up for a
few seconds.

649
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:10,720
It's still climbing and they're
going through the checklist of

650
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:13,760
what you need to do to fly with
two engines instead of three.

651
00:35:14,240 --> 00:35:17,520
And then suddenly the plane
starts banking to the side and

652
00:35:17,520 --> 00:35:21,360
they are trying like hell to
bank it to the other way so they

653
00:35:21,360 --> 00:35:24,240
don't lose control of it.
But they were dead.

654
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,680
They were literally dead.
There was nothing they could do

655
00:35:26,680 --> 00:35:30,280
about it because they lost all
control of the plane and it

656
00:35:30,280 --> 00:35:33,160
banked and it crashed and it was
completely full of fuel.

657
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,240
Everybody on board died.
And I believe one person died on

658
00:35:36,240 --> 00:35:40,760
the ground, possibly more.
And it was horrifying, beyond

659
00:35:40,800 --> 00:35:44,160
preventable.
It was basically these companies

660
00:35:44,160 --> 00:35:46,120
trying to save a buck.
Yep.

661
00:35:46,360 --> 00:35:48,840
I think it's really scary too,
because over the last several

662
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,880
years you've had more and more
aircraft maintenance being out

663
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:55,920
outsourced.
Like 70% of heavy maintenance

664
00:35:55,920 --> 00:35:58,320
for the major US airlines is
outsourced to 3rd party

665
00:35:58,320 --> 00:36:00,320
providers.
And these third party providers

666
00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:05,400
are known for cutting corners.
And really they see it as like

667
00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:09,000
give it the cheapest seal of
approval and then let them go on

668
00:36:09,000 --> 00:36:10,720
their way.
And then without any thought

669
00:36:10,720 --> 00:36:15,280
about passenger safety or long
term integrity of parts.

670
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:19,640
And so when you have a company
that is basically open to like

671
00:36:19,640 --> 00:36:23,640
checking boxes without these
verification systems or they're

672
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:27,400
using bad old parts or
uncertified parts, I mean that

673
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:30,000
really that is a life or death
situation.

674
00:36:30,000 --> 00:36:31,920
Yeah.
And a lot of times you'll hear

675
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,080
people complain that it's to
foreign companies and foreign

676
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:38,120
countries or they're bringing in
foreign workers that are

677
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,560
cheaper.
I just want to make a point that

678
00:36:40,560 --> 00:36:43,080
being an American maintenance
person does not make you a

679
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:45,560
better maintenance person than
being a maintenance person in

680
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:48,200
another country.
The real critique is whether

681
00:36:48,320 --> 00:36:52,040
it's in the US or abroad, and
there are a bunch of these

682
00:36:52,080 --> 00:36:54,280
companies in the US, It's not
just abroad.

683
00:36:54,280 --> 00:36:57,960
They are looking for the
cheapest way to maintain

684
00:36:58,040 --> 00:37:02,960
maintenance of their aircraft.
And that does necessarily mean

685
00:37:03,000 --> 00:37:06,720
you are cutting corners.
You are falsifying records and

686
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,400
you are doing everything you can
to make the airline company

687
00:37:10,400 --> 00:37:12,040
happy.
And what the airline company

688
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,600
wants is those planes running
back and forth with no

689
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:19,680
interruption.
And I just want to underline the

690
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,880
example we gave did not involve
any foreign workers or any

691
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:26,080
offshore anything.
These were American maintenance

692
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,920
workers that were forced by the
company to massively cut corners

693
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:35,400
to repair an engine.
And there's a lot more examples,

694
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:39,200
but I want to give one more and
that's the Alaska Airlines crash

695
00:37:39,200 --> 00:37:42,280
in the year 2000, January 31st,
2000.

696
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:46,240
This was a plane where the
engines are in the back of the

697
00:37:46,240 --> 00:37:50,680
plane by the tail, and there's a
horizontal stabilizer back

698
00:37:50,680 --> 00:37:53,080
there.
That basically is what tells the

699
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:57,720
plane to go up and down and it
responds to the commands where

700
00:37:57,720 --> 00:38:00,680
the pilot sits.
There's a thing called a Jack

701
00:38:00,680 --> 00:38:03,160
screw.
That Jack screw basically is

702
00:38:03,160 --> 00:38:07,560
what holds that tail together
and holds the flaps that go up

703
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:10,720
and down that determine whether
the plane is going up or down.

704
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:15,200
A lead engineer at Alaska
Airlines 2 years before that

705
00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:20,480
crash named John Leotine, like
expressly went to the FAA to

706
00:38:20,480 --> 00:38:25,080
complain that Alaska Airlines
were cutting corners in terms of

707
00:38:25,120 --> 00:38:27,680
lubricating or replacing the
Jack screw.

708
00:38:27,880 --> 00:38:30,600
And he pointed to that
particular plane that ended up

709
00:38:30,600 --> 00:38:33,720
crashing as an.
And so like the Jack screw, like

710
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:35,640
the integrity was damaged or it
was.

711
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:39,440
Well, it hadn't been damaged
yet, or it was probably.

712
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:42,320
Overused.
He can't see the Jack screw.

713
00:38:42,480 --> 00:38:44,880
You have to take take the tail
to see the Jack screw.

714
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:48,520
But again, you go to the
manufacturer's instructions.

715
00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:52,920
They say that the Jack screw
needs to be lubricated every 500

716
00:38:52,920 --> 00:38:59,040
flying hours and the Jack screw
needs to be replaced every 7200

717
00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:01,800
flying hours.
And he's pointing out that is

718
00:39:01,800 --> 00:39:04,120
not happening because to
lubricate you have to take the

719
00:39:04,120 --> 00:39:06,640
tail components apart.
I mean again it takes.

720
00:39:06,920 --> 00:39:10,880
Hours, which is pay, Yep, wages.
And maintenance and and hours,

721
00:39:10,920 --> 00:39:11,560
etcetera.
Yeah.

722
00:39:11,640 --> 00:39:15,840
And he was basically driven out
of the industry, not just out of

723
00:39:15,840 --> 00:39:17,800
his job, but but out of the
industry.

724
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:23,200
The FAA did not only do nothing
to protect him, they went along

725
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,440
with Alaska Airlines in altering
the rules regarding the Jack

726
00:39:28,440 --> 00:39:31,560
screw.
So I said every 500 hours it

727
00:39:31,560 --> 00:39:34,720
needs to be lubricated.
Alaska Airlines requested and

728
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:38,080
received approval from the FAA
that it can be lubricated every

729
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:39,920
2500.
Wait, what?

730
00:39:39,920 --> 00:39:43,320
But isn't like the manufacturer
the only one who has the

731
00:39:43,320 --> 00:39:45,800
authority to make that
determination considering the?

732
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:48,280
FAA No.
No.

733
00:39:48,640 --> 00:39:51,640
The manufacturer says this is
what we came up with the FAA.

734
00:39:51,640 --> 00:39:55,000
Based on science but.
Yeah, based on our manufacturing

735
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:56,680
practice and that's what we
think is safe.

736
00:39:56,720 --> 00:40:00,000
And the FAA, no, they have the
authority to change that.

737
00:40:00,360 --> 00:40:03,640
And so they went along from 500
to 2500.

738
00:40:03,640 --> 00:40:06,320
That's kind of the point about
the maintenance, repair and

739
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:08,880
overhaul.
You need quality control

740
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:11,480
systems.
You need internal processes for

741
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:13,240
all of this equipment and
repair.

742
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:16,680
I think this is such a good
illustration about how the FAA

743
00:40:16,680 --> 00:40:19,000
works with these airlines, to be
honest.

744
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:21,840
Oh yeah, that'd be exactly.
And we'll come back to that in

745
00:40:21,840 --> 00:40:24,400
another example.
And then in terms of changing

746
00:40:24,400 --> 00:40:28,840
it, they agreed with Alaska
Airlines to raise that from 7200

747
00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,840
flight hours, it has to be
changed to 9500 flight hours.

748
00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:36,800
Oh, that's crazy.
How that's so wild?

749
00:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,320
So what happened?
So Alaska Airlines was flying to

750
00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,800
close to LAX and perfectly
normal flight, clear skies, the

751
00:40:45,800 --> 00:40:48,560
kind of flight that a pilot can
do with their eyes closed, and

752
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:51,480
then suddenly there's a bang and
they cannot control the plane.

753
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:56,720
That's because the Corkscrew had
broken and the flap on the back

754
00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,080
pushed in One Direction, which
basically is forcing the plane

755
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:02,880
outside of their control.
From the moment that happened,

756
00:41:02,880 --> 00:41:05,120
they were dead because there was
no way they were going to bring

757
00:41:05,120 --> 00:41:08,600
that plane to the ground safely.
There was one point and just

758
00:41:08,600 --> 00:41:11,600
want you to imagine the horror
of this, both as a passenger but

759
00:41:11,600 --> 00:41:14,120
also as the crew.
The only time they could really

760
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:18,200
maintain control of the plane
was when they inverted it upside

761
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,040
down South.
Wait with passengers inside of

762
00:41:21,040 --> 00:41:21,600
it.
Yes.

763
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,040
Oh my God.
Dude.

764
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,640
So just for anyone who says, oh,
this sounds familiar, this is

765
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:32,520
because the film Flight with
Denzel Washington was loosely

766
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:36,320
based on this accident and which
was based on the Jack Screw

767
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:38,520
failure.
But you'll see in the movie

768
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:39,880
actually, that he inverts the
plane.

769
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:42,040
That's like one of the famous
scenes from the movie.

770
00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:45,000
But but he lands it or or it's a
controlled crash.

771
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,280
Whereas in this case, and I just
want to give credit out to the

772
00:41:48,280 --> 00:41:51,320
pilots because at a certain
point they must have realized

773
00:41:51,320 --> 00:41:56,240
they were doomed and instead of
flying into the LA, they stayed

774
00:41:56,280 --> 00:41:59,480
out in the water so that when
they crash they take nobody with

775
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:00,960
them.
That's really sad.

776
00:42:01,560 --> 00:42:04,840
And yeah, it's one of the most
horrifying crashes because they

777
00:42:04,840 --> 00:42:08,360
were up in the air for a long
time before that plane crashed,

778
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:11,760
and it was entire, like, beyond
preventable.

779
00:42:12,240 --> 00:42:14,280
So when we kicked off this
episode, Ezra, you were talking

780
00:42:14,280 --> 00:42:18,360
about human error and accidents,
and I want to talk a little bit

781
00:42:18,360 --> 00:42:22,040
about pilots here, but mostly
focusing on the deterioration of

782
00:42:22,040 --> 00:42:25,560
working conditions for pilots.
In the early 2000s, I think is

783
00:42:25,560 --> 00:42:27,920
when it started to come to our
attention that the starting

784
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:32,320
salaries for pilots at regional
airlines was like poverty wages

785
00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:35,960
at the time.
In the documentary Capitalism a

786
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,600
Love Story by Michael Moore in I
think it was 2009, there was a

787
00:42:39,600 --> 00:42:44,480
whole segment on pilots dealing
with fatigue and how entry level

788
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,960
pilots had to like rely on crash
pads because they couldn't

789
00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:49,480
afford a home where they were
stationed.

790
00:42:49,480 --> 00:42:52,000
They were just in a completely
unstable situation.

791
00:42:52,320 --> 00:42:55,960
So I was kind of curious what it
looks like today.

792
00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:01,040
So I looked at the 2026
statistics for pilots and the

793
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,520
average regional first officer
earns approximately 62,000 to

794
00:43:05,520 --> 00:43:09,680
90,000.
Then you factor in $100,000 in

795
00:43:09,680 --> 00:43:13,840
flight school debt and the
skyrocketing cost of living in

796
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,120
base cities.
Yeah, $60,000 ain't shit that

797
00:43:17,320 --> 00:43:18,840
I'm really surprised.
Yeah.

798
00:43:18,960 --> 00:43:21,600
One of the things I wanted to
talk about are the regional

799
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,440
pilots in particular, these
regional pilots for these

800
00:43:24,440 --> 00:43:27,720
regional airlines have become
kind of the backbone of what's

801
00:43:27,720 --> 00:43:32,240
called the hub and spoke system.
So they're often connecting the

802
00:43:32,240 --> 00:43:36,280
basically they're flying like 5
or 6 legs a day in this very

803
00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:39,480
congested air space with minimal
turn around time.

804
00:43:39,520 --> 00:43:44,240
And these regional airlines have
acted as a kind of low cost

805
00:43:44,240 --> 00:43:48,240
buffer for the major carriers.
And so all this grueling work

806
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:51,960
has been offloaded to this
workforce of the regional

807
00:43:51,960 --> 00:43:55,960
pilots.
So this is going to lead up to a

808
00:43:55,960 --> 00:44:00,320
discussion about Colgan Air
Flight 34 O 7, which was

809
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:03,000
operating at the time as a
continental connection.

810
00:44:03,000 --> 00:44:06,880
And that was the crash in 2009
that a lot of people might

811
00:44:06,880 --> 00:44:12,680
remember when the plane crashed
into a house in Buffalo while it

812
00:44:12,680 --> 00:44:15,440
was approaching the Buffalo
airport, crashed into a house

813
00:44:15,440 --> 00:44:19,040
and killed all 49 on board.
So before we talk about what led

814
00:44:19,040 --> 00:44:22,880
up to that crash, I want to hear
from some of the pilots from

815
00:44:22,880 --> 00:44:25,960
Colgan Air, which was one of
these regional airlines.

816
00:44:25,960 --> 00:44:32,120
This is a clip from a 2010 PBS
Frontline documentary called

817
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:35,520
Flying Cheap.
I really highly recommend it and

818
00:44:35,520 --> 00:44:39,360
both of the regional airline
pilots being interviewed for

819
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:42,680
this documentary flew for Colgan
Air around the time of the big

820
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:46,280
crash.
No 8910 flights a day.

821
00:44:46,800 --> 00:44:51,680
It gets to be a very long day.
While FAA regulations limit

822
00:44:51,680 --> 00:44:56,320
pilots to 8 hours of actual
flight time a day, pilots may be

823
00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:01,880
on duty for up to 16 hours a
day, but that doesn't mean a big

824
00:45:01,880 --> 00:45:05,560
paycheck.
We are only paid when the doors

825
00:45:05,560 --> 00:45:07,560
closed and the engines are
running.

826
00:45:07,640 --> 00:45:10,000
As soon as we block out of the
gate, we close that door.

827
00:45:10,520 --> 00:45:12,800
That's when we start.
All the time we're walking

828
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,520
through airports, eating lunch,
reading a book while we wait for

829
00:45:16,520 --> 00:45:18,920
airplanes standing at the gate,
You know we're not paid for that

830
00:45:18,920 --> 00:45:24,160
time.
We may be on duty for 80 hours a

831
00:45:24,160 --> 00:45:27,440
week and get paid for 20 of it.
If we're lucky.

832
00:45:28,280 --> 00:45:30,160
They said safety was a priority.
A lot.

833
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:38,000
In my experience, however, on a
day-to-day basis, being on time

834
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:42,880
and and completing the the
flight was much more important,

835
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,440
much more important.
What happened if you were tired

836
00:45:47,560 --> 00:45:52,200
or sick or both sick and tired
and you called in and said I

837
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,720
can't do this trip, what
happened then?

838
00:45:55,080 --> 00:45:57,160
I was actually one of them that
claimed fatigue.

839
00:45:57,160 --> 00:46:01,480
At one point I had a number of
16 hour duty days in a row.

840
00:46:02,160 --> 00:46:05,920
Full 16 hour.
Full 16 hour days and I swear to

841
00:46:05,920 --> 00:46:09,040
God that this is true.
Our vice president of operations

842
00:46:09,320 --> 00:46:13,160
got on the phone with me and
said, well, you know, are you?

843
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:14,840
You're going to be stuck in
Hyannis Port.

844
00:46:14,840 --> 00:46:16,520
You're going to be stuck in
Hyannis for the night.

845
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,680
If you claim fatigue right now,
wouldn't you like to get home?

846
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:26,160
We can, you know, shorten your
duty day for you.

847
00:46:26,560 --> 00:46:29,240
Instead of saying you showed up
at 5:40 this morning, we can say

848
00:46:29,240 --> 00:46:31,920
you showed up at six and that'll
give you that extra 20 minutes

849
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,680
to take that flight back to
Albany.

850
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:37,720
So to be clear, he was offering
to falsify the records so that

851
00:46:37,720 --> 00:46:42,480
you would appear to have flown a
legal FA sanctioned day when you

852
00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:45,520
didn't or weren't.
Correct.

853
00:46:45,800 --> 00:46:49,440
The saying around the company
has always moved the rig and

854
00:46:49,440 --> 00:46:51,320
that just kind of told me that
they were willing to kind of

855
00:46:51,320 --> 00:46:54,040
push the bounds.
Why were they pushing?

856
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,320
Because if we didn't move those
airplanes, they didn't make any

857
00:46:58,320 --> 00:47:02,240
money.
Your life is in their hands when

858
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:04,720
they're flying you around, and
this is how these companies

859
00:47:04,720 --> 00:47:07,080
treat these people.
I mean, flying used to be like

860
00:47:07,080 --> 00:47:09,840
being a pilot used to be a
prestigious profession.

861
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:11,800
What happened?
It's deregulation.

862
00:47:11,800 --> 00:47:15,880
I mean, before deregulation, the
major airline companies had to

863
00:47:15,880 --> 00:47:17,880
service the small regional
areas.

864
00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:22,200
And once you had deregulation,
the major airline companies,

865
00:47:22,200 --> 00:47:25,200
through mergers and what have
you, you know, they're going to

866
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,760
fly the lucrative route that are
going to make the most money,

867
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:32,920
and they're going to have
regional subsidiaries fly the

868
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,000
small routes that make less
money.

869
00:47:35,040 --> 00:47:38,160
And for them to be profitable,
they have to be cutthroat.

870
00:47:38,800 --> 00:47:42,560
In this case, we're focusing on
the pilots because of the Colgan

871
00:47:42,800 --> 00:47:45,280
Air disaster.
Now mind you, when you were

872
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:48,760
buying a ticket for that flight,
you were buying a ticket, as far

873
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:51,400
as you knew, for Continental.
That was one of the most

874
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,480
surprising things to me.
On your ticket is a big, big.

875
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:57,400
In big lettering, it says
Continental, and then in tiny,

876
00:47:57,400 --> 00:48:00,600
tiny lettering it says that, oh,
you're actually flying with this

877
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:02,440
subsidiary.
But when you're buying the

878
00:48:02,440 --> 00:48:05,320
ticket, nobody tells you that.
Yeah, no, you're buying a ticket

879
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,080
off Continental's website or
whatever website you're using.

880
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:11,120
You're thinking if you're flying
Continental, but anything that

881
00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,640
basically has an express after
it is one of these small

882
00:48:14,640 --> 00:48:17,680
regional airlines.
And you know, like I said, we're

883
00:48:17,680 --> 00:48:19,840
focusing on the pilots, but you
can also imagine what the

884
00:48:19,840 --> 00:48:21,640
maintenance is like and
everything else.

885
00:48:22,080 --> 00:48:24,920
And the reason we're focusing on
the pilots is because in that

886
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:27,440
flight, we can come back to the
details a little bit.

887
00:48:28,000 --> 00:48:31,720
The the crash was pilot error,
but it was pilot error produced

888
00:48:31,720 --> 00:48:35,520
by this ridiculous fatigue that
these guys are are being put

889
00:48:35,520 --> 00:48:38,200
under.
Bear in mind, when these guys

890
00:48:38,240 --> 00:48:41,080
are on a leg, they have to find
their own housing.

891
00:48:41,080 --> 00:48:43,760
The company is not putting you
up in a hotel.

892
00:48:44,160 --> 00:48:46,480
If you want to sleep in a hotel,
you got to pay for it out of

893
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:48,920
your own time.
That, to me, is so, so criminal.

894
00:48:48,920 --> 00:48:51,920
Like, yeah, executives get
housing all the time.

895
00:48:52,080 --> 00:48:54,280
I mean, it's not like these
people don't have to also pay

896
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:57,160
rent on apartments if they're
making 60. $1000.

897
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:00,080
A year they're barely able to
live somewhere and then they

898
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,840
have to pay for a H3 or four
nights a week on top of that.

899
00:49:03,000 --> 00:49:04,840
And it's utterly criminal.
So if we want to talk about the

900
00:49:04,840 --> 00:49:07,600
crash a little bit, what
happened is the plane was

901
00:49:07,600 --> 00:49:09,680
landing.
As they're landing, the plane

902
00:49:09,680 --> 00:49:12,720
got issued A stall warning.
The plane was telling the pilots

903
00:49:12,760 --> 00:49:15,920
you're going a little too slow,
you need to speed up because of

904
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:18,800
the aerodynamics.
And so there's a stick column

905
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:22,160
and what you're supposed to do
is push so you can gain some

906
00:49:22,160 --> 00:49:25,040
speed.
What the pilots did was pulled,

907
00:49:25,040 --> 00:49:26,680
which reduced.
The opposite.

908
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:29,000
Right, which made a bad
situation worse.

909
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,720
And so you can talk about
potentially training blah blah

910
00:49:32,720 --> 00:49:37,480
blah, but the reality is if you
listen to what they were talking

911
00:49:37,480 --> 00:49:41,000
about as they were landing now,
the first thing I want to say is

912
00:49:41,000 --> 00:49:43,920
when you're taking off and when
you're landing, the only

913
00:49:43,920 --> 00:49:46,640
conversations that should be
happening between the pilot and

914
00:49:46,640 --> 00:49:50,840
copilot should be related to the
operation of the airplane.

915
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:53,200
They should not be talking about
anything else.

916
00:49:53,240 --> 00:49:56,520
However, throughout the flight
and during the landing, the

917
00:49:56,520 --> 00:50:00,960
first officer, Rebecca Shaw, who
was 24 at the time, mentioned

918
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:06,360
that you made $15,800 in the
previous year and that her pay

919
00:50:06,360 --> 00:50:09,280
was about $16,000.
She talked about how she was in

920
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,920
a dispute with the airline over
$200 in back.

921
00:50:11,920 --> 00:50:13,640
Pay.
And she had a second job.

922
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:15,520
She had a second job at a coffee
shop.

923
00:50:16,080 --> 00:50:17,640
Yeah.
Well, she was in flight school.

924
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:18,080
Yeah.
There's a.

925
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:20,840
Fucking pilot who has to have a
second job.

926
00:50:21,560 --> 00:50:24,920
She talked about how she was
exhausted, how she was sick,

927
00:50:25,440 --> 00:50:28,240
ready to be in a hotel room.
That's a that's in a quote from

928
00:50:28,240 --> 00:50:31,400
her.
The captain, who I believe made

929
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:35,640
$50,000 a year at that point,
talked about how he commuted

930
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:39,080
from Florida, was sleeping in
the Newark crew lounge.

931
00:50:39,240 --> 00:50:42,640
Not in a hotel, not on a bed,
but on a couch in the crew

932
00:50:42,640 --> 00:50:45,520
lounge.
Yeah, no human being can work

933
00:50:45,520 --> 00:50:48,480
under these conditions, and
whatever the company saves is

934
00:50:48,480 --> 00:50:51,000
paid for in the blood of their
customers.

935
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:55,440
And their pilots and the pay has
gone up since 2009 like you

936
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:59,600
mentioned 60,000 to 100 as
opposed to what it was in 2009.

937
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,280
But that's not because the
company suddenly got heart and

938
00:51:03,280 --> 00:51:05,080
decided, oh, we should pay them
more.

939
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,360
It's because there's a shortage
and there's a shortage of pilots

940
00:51:08,360 --> 00:51:11,680
because there's like an
understanding this isn't the

941
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:14,000
high paying job that it used to
be.

942
00:51:14,240 --> 00:51:17,160
You know, and Marxism, there's
this terminology called labor

943
00:51:17,160 --> 00:51:20,400
aristocracy where you are part
of the labor movement, but

944
00:51:20,400 --> 00:51:21,920
you're in sort of the top tier
of it.

945
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:24,480
And there are certain people
that should be in the labor

946
00:51:24,480 --> 00:51:27,000
aristocracy.
I don't want my pilot while

947
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,000
they're flying the plane to be
worried about their mortgage

948
00:51:30,000 --> 00:51:31,960
payments.
I don't want the air traffic

949
00:51:31,960 --> 00:51:34,600
controller to be worried about
their mortgage payments.

950
00:51:34,840 --> 00:51:37,720
I want them to be worried about
only doing their job.

951
00:51:37,760 --> 00:51:41,040
Amen to that.
Yeah, no hunger pains please and

952
00:51:41,040 --> 00:51:44,120
and a restful night too.
And I would extend that to the

953
00:51:44,120 --> 00:51:46,320
mechanics.
I want the mechanic of airplanes

954
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:49,240
to have the confidence to say
that's not an air worthy plane,

955
00:51:49,320 --> 00:51:51,320
it can't fly.
But guys, don't forget about the

956
00:51:51,320 --> 00:51:54,160
poorest CEO's who need another
yacht in their fleet.

957
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:57,080
And, and yeah, Colgan Air went
out of business after that

958
00:51:57,080 --> 00:52:01,160
crash, but the people at the top
of Colgan Air made out with a

959
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,600
shit load of money whether it
went out of business or not.

960
00:52:03,600 --> 00:52:06,480
Continental can just wash his
hands because they say, oh, we

961
00:52:06,480 --> 00:52:08,520
just outsourced to this carrier.
Yeah.

962
00:52:08,760 --> 00:52:12,120
So this was 2009.
This Buffalo crash was very,

963
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:16,320
very big deal in terms of
exposing pulling the cover off

964
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:19,480
of the regional airlines and
some of the questions of poor

965
00:52:19,480 --> 00:52:21,600
pilot pay.
I think one of the things that

966
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:25,080
you mentioned, Ezra, about the
shortage, that part of that was

967
00:52:25,120 --> 00:52:28,720
during all these crises that
they had like 911 and COVID and

968
00:52:28,720 --> 00:52:33,000
stuff like that, they asked for
voluntary departures.

969
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:36,160
And so all these pilots departed
during that time, and then they

970
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:40,720
didn't implement any retraining
or rehiring programs for several

971
00:52:40,720 --> 00:52:44,360
years because they were worried
about their profits and didn't

972
00:52:44,360 --> 00:52:46,160
know what direction the industry
was going in.

973
00:52:46,240 --> 00:52:47,920
Yeah.
I mean, I think we have a clip

974
00:52:47,920 --> 00:52:51,400
here from Chesley Burnett,
Sullenberger the third.

975
00:52:51,480 --> 00:52:53,440
Our listeners may know him
better as Sully.

976
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,440
He was the captain along with
First Officer Jeffrey Skiles,

977
00:52:57,840 --> 00:53:02,400
who who safely brought down AUS
Airways plane that had taken off

978
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:06,520
New York and then suffered a
bird strike, a very rare bird

979
00:53:06,520 --> 00:53:10,040
strike in both of its engines
and they safely brought down the

980
00:53:10,040 --> 00:53:12,840
plane into the Hudson.
No fatalities.

981
00:53:12,840 --> 00:53:14,920
There were some, a couple of
serious injuries but no

982
00:53:14,920 --> 00:53:17,400
fatalities.
Yeah, the miracle on the Hudson,

983
00:53:17,400 --> 00:53:20,000
don't they call it that, the
miracle on the Hudson to set

984
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:24,120
this up?
Sully is considered a hero who

985
00:53:24,120 --> 00:53:29,360
in 2009 was then asked to
testify after the Buffalo crash

986
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:34,320
on the situation of pilots.
And it's just so incredibly

987
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:38,880
revealing what he says.
I'm not only proud of my crew,

988
00:53:39,360 --> 00:53:43,520
I'm proud of my profession.
Flying has been my lifelong

989
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:46,600
passion.
I count myself fortunate to have

990
00:53:46,600 --> 00:53:50,320
spent my life in the profession
I love with colleagues whom I

991
00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:54,800
respect and admire.
But while I love my profession,

992
00:53:55,280 --> 00:53:57,520
I do not like what has happened
to it.

993
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:02,640
I would not be doing my duty if
I not did not report to you that

994
00:54:02,640 --> 00:54:04,920
I'm deeply troubled about its
future.

995
00:54:06,200 --> 00:54:09,440
Americans have been experiencing
huge economic difficulties in

996
00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:13,560
recent months, but airline
employees have been experiencing

997
00:54:13,640 --> 00:54:16,520
those challenges and more For
eight years.

998
00:54:17,480 --> 00:54:21,320
We've been hit by an economic
tsunami September 11th.

999
00:54:21,920 --> 00:54:25,160
Bankruptcies, fluctuating fuel
prices, mergers, loss of

1000
00:54:25,160 --> 00:54:28,920
pensions and revolving door
management teams who have used

1001
00:54:28,920 --> 00:54:33,320
airline employees as an ATM have
left the people who work for the

1002
00:54:33,320 --> 00:54:37,240
airlines in the United States
with extreme economic

1003
00:54:37,240 --> 00:54:40,640
difficulties.
It is an incredible testament to

1004
00:54:40,640 --> 00:54:44,400
the collective character,
professionalism and dedication

1005
00:54:44,720 --> 00:54:47,880
of my colleagues in the industry
that they are still able to

1006
00:54:47,880 --> 00:54:51,800
function at such a high level.
It is my personal experience

1007
00:54:51,800 --> 00:54:55,400
that my decision to remain in
the profession I love has come

1008
00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:58,600
at a great financial cost to me
and to my family.

1009
00:54:59,760 --> 00:55:03,560
My pay has been cut 40%.
My pension, like most airline

1010
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:09,240
pensions, has been terminated
and replaced by a PBGC guarantee

1011
00:55:09,240 --> 00:55:10,720
worth only pennies to the
dollar.

1012
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:15,360
While airline pilots are by no
means alone in our financial

1013
00:55:15,360 --> 00:55:19,440
struggles, I want to acknowledge
how difficult it is for everyone

1014
00:55:19,440 --> 00:55:22,680
right now.
It's important to under score

1015
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:26,120
that the terms of our employment
have changed dramatically from

1016
00:55:26,280 --> 00:55:30,200
when I began my career, leading
to an untenable financial

1017
00:55:30,200 --> 00:55:32,440
situation for pilots and their
families.

1018
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:35,920
When my company offered pilots
who had been laid off the chance

1019
00:55:35,920 --> 00:55:44,880
to return to work, 60% refused.
Members I I attempt to speak

1020
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:48,640
accurately and plainly, so
please do not think I exaggerate

1021
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,280
when I say that I do not know a
single professional airline

1022
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:53,960
pilot who wants his or her
children to follow in their

1023
00:55:53,960 --> 00:55:57,000
footsteps.
I am worried that the airline

1024
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:00,520
piloting profession will not be
able to continue to attract the

1025
00:56:00,520 --> 00:56:03,960
best and the brightest.
The current experience and

1026
00:56:03,960 --> 00:56:07,160
skills of our country's
professional airline pilots come

1027
00:56:07,160 --> 00:56:11,320
from investments made years ago
when we were able to attract the

1028
00:56:11,320 --> 00:56:15,840
ambitious, talented people who
now frequently seek professional

1029
00:56:15,840 --> 00:56:19,800
careers elsewhere.
That past investment was an

1030
00:56:19,800 --> 00:56:22,480
indispensable element in our
commercial aviation

1031
00:56:22,480 --> 00:56:26,480
infrastructure, vital to safe
air travel and our country's

1032
00:56:26,480 --> 00:56:30,360
economy and security.
If we do not sufficiently value

1033
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:34,000
the airline piloting profession
and future pilots are less

1034
00:56:34,000 --> 00:56:38,160
experienced and less skilled, it
logically follows that we will

1035
00:56:38,280 --> 00:56:41,920
see negative consequences to the
Fallon flying public and to our

1036
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:45,880
country.
I just think it's so, so

1037
00:56:45,880 --> 00:56:48,360
emblematic.
You have this this American hero

1038
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,240
that everyone lauded, and there
was a movie with Tom Hanks

1039
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:54,560
made-up after him, and he's
sitting here testifying.

1040
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:56,960
I don't know how many people
have heard this clip except for

1041
00:56:56,960 --> 00:56:59,960
a little piece of it from
Michael Moore's movie, but you

1042
00:56:59,960 --> 00:57:04,480
know this is the reality.
His 40% pay cut pension?

1043
00:57:04,480 --> 00:57:06,640
Gutted.
That's shocking that somebody

1044
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:11,120
who's a senior, a veteran pilot
can have his pay slashed like

1045
00:57:11,120 --> 00:57:13,320
that.
Later on in the hearing, he says

1046
00:57:13,720 --> 00:57:16,840
in aviation, the bottom line is
that the single most important

1047
00:57:16,840 --> 00:57:19,960
piece of safety equipment is an
experienced, well trained pilot.

1048
00:57:20,080 --> 00:57:22,400
Yeah.
And earlier I said, and I stand

1049
00:57:22,400 --> 00:57:25,560
by it, that flying has become
much safer because of

1050
00:57:25,560 --> 00:57:29,560
automation, because human error
is whether by the pilots or by

1051
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:32,840
the air traffic controllers or
some combination of thereof, is

1052
00:57:32,840 --> 00:57:35,720
the single biggest cause of
plane crashes.

1053
00:57:35,960 --> 00:57:40,160
The flip side of that is no
computer can do what Sully did

1054
00:57:40,200 --> 00:57:43,640
and and Skiles did.
No computer that we know of that

1055
00:57:43,640 --> 00:57:47,480
exists today, maybe in the
future, can take a plane with no

1056
00:57:47,480 --> 00:57:50,040
engines and landed safely in the
Hudson.

1057
00:57:51,080 --> 00:57:54,440
That was human skill.
So on that, I want to talk a

1058
00:57:54,440 --> 00:57:57,320
little bit about air traffic
control obviously because that

1059
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,960
is what's considered a
dispensable, disposable

1060
00:58:00,960 --> 00:58:03,080
workforce.
Apparently the air traffic

1061
00:58:03,080 --> 00:58:07,040
control system, the
infrastructure, is dangerously

1062
00:58:07,040 --> 00:58:11,040
outmoded and crumbling, and the
crisis in the control towers is

1063
00:58:11,040 --> 00:58:14,920
probably the most visible scar
from the war on labor.

1064
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:17,920
It goes back to the 1981
smashing of PAT coworkers.

1065
00:58:17,920 --> 00:58:21,600
So that was the air traffic
controllers union and at the

1066
00:58:21,600 --> 00:58:25,560
time Ronald Reagan fired over
11,000 striking pat coworkers

1067
00:58:25,600 --> 00:58:29,000
and this was considered the
death knell for the US labor

1068
00:58:29,000 --> 00:58:31,640
movement.
It also completely reengineered

1069
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:34,000
the idea of air safety
infrastructure.

1070
00:58:34,360 --> 00:58:37,960
This year there were several
near misses based on controllers

1071
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:40,120
being on the brink of physical
exhaustion.

1072
00:58:40,520 --> 00:58:43,560
So if you just look at some of
the statistics, at the start of

1073
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:48,920
the year 2026, FAA reported a
deficit of 3500 fully certified

1074
00:58:48,920 --> 00:58:52,160
controllers.
So the workforce is at its

1075
00:58:52,160 --> 00:58:56,760
lowest level in decades.
At critical facilities, 41% of

1076
00:58:56,760 --> 00:59:01,120
controllers are forced into
grueling 10 hour shifts and six

1077
00:59:01,120 --> 00:59:04,680
day work weeks.
In the first quarter of 2026,

1078
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:09,280
there was a 61% surge in near
mid air collisions compared to

1079
00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:13,560
20/19, with controller workload
being cited as the dominant

1080
00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:17,760
factor in nearly every incident.
It's it's utterly insane.

1081
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:21,480
And we began this episode by
talking about the LaGuardia

1082
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:26,080
crash where Air Canada Express
hit a fire truck on the runway,

1083
00:59:26,160 --> 00:59:30,040
causing, I think the pilots
ended up being being killed in

1084
00:59:30,040 --> 00:59:32,760
that crash.
That was air traffic controller

1085
00:59:32,760 --> 00:59:35,000
error.
And it was because they were

1086
00:59:35,000 --> 00:59:37,600
incredibly understaffed.
And you had one, you had a total

1087
00:59:37,600 --> 00:59:40,240
of 2 air traffic controllers
running the whole of La Guardia

1088
00:59:40,640 --> 00:59:42,400
at that time.
This isn't some tiny little

1089
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,040
regional airport.
This is, you know, it's insane.

1090
00:59:45,320 --> 00:59:48,040
It's it's insane, La.
Guardia in one of the largest

1091
00:59:48,040 --> 00:59:49,960
cities in the world.
Yeah.

1092
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:54,520
Yeah, so we talked about the
labor aristocracy and how the

1093
00:59:54,520 --> 00:59:57,080
pilots should be there.
I would also put air traffic

1094
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,120
controllers into that category.
This is a really, really

1095
01:00:00,120 --> 01:00:03,680
demanding job with crazy high
consequences.

1096
01:00:04,120 --> 01:00:07,160
And something really scary
happened in 2025 at the Newark

1097
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:09,800
airport in the air traffic
control tower.

1098
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,160
All the screens went blank for
90 seconds.

1099
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,680
And 90 seconds might not sound
like a long time, but this was

1100
01:00:15,680 --> 01:00:18,800
completely terrifying to the
people who work there to be

1101
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:20,840
blind and have all those planes
in the sky.

1102
01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:22,760
The results of that could have
been catastrophic.

1103
01:00:23,080 --> 01:00:26,280
And the way that this occurred
is actually because of cost

1104
01:00:26,280 --> 01:00:27,880
cutting.
In this episode, we've talked a

1105
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,280
lot about why incidents occur,
if they're a result of human

1106
01:00:31,280 --> 01:00:34,720
error, if they're a result of
mechanical failure, or if this

1107
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:36,520
is something that's within our
control.

1108
01:00:36,760 --> 01:00:41,000
And what happens here is that
for many years, the air traffic

1109
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:45,200
control station for Newark was
located in Long Island, and all

1110
01:00:45,200 --> 01:00:47,640
the radar equipment and
everything is in Long Island.

1111
01:00:48,000 --> 01:00:52,160
But the FAA decided to move that
station to Philadelphia to save

1112
01:00:52,160 --> 01:00:53,960
money.
So all the air traffic

1113
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:57,800
controllers are now in
Philadelphia for Newark.

1114
01:00:58,000 --> 01:01:01,200
So instead of moving any of that
radar equipment, what they did

1115
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:04,640
is created a system to relay
that information from Long

1116
01:01:04,640 --> 01:01:07,720
Island to Philadelphia.
So when that blackout occurred,

1117
01:01:07,840 --> 01:01:09,960
it wasn't actually the radar
failing.

1118
01:01:09,960 --> 01:01:13,440
It was the connection between
Long Island and Philadelphia

1119
01:01:13,440 --> 01:01:15,960
that went out.
So Wall Street Journal did this

1120
01:01:15,960 --> 01:01:18,840
great interview with air traffic
controller named Jonathan

1121
01:01:18,840 --> 01:01:21,240
Stewart, and he talks about that
day in Newark.

1122
01:01:21,240 --> 01:01:24,800
He talks about his experience in
Newark and how the workload

1123
01:01:24,800 --> 01:01:27,800
became so extraordinarily high
after that incident.

1124
01:01:28,040 --> 01:01:31,160
So what he talks about in this
clip we're going to play is how

1125
01:01:31,160 --> 01:01:33,960
after that incident occurred,
the air traffic controllers,

1126
01:01:33,960 --> 01:01:36,440
they had to start anticipating A
blackout.

1127
01:01:36,440 --> 01:01:38,400
They couldn't allow a blackout
to occur again.

1128
01:01:38,600 --> 01:01:41,440
So in addition to doing things
through their traditional

1129
01:01:41,440 --> 01:01:45,240
digital method, he had to start
using a pen and paper method in

1130
01:01:45,240 --> 01:01:47,760
order to track the planes.
So if there was another

1131
01:01:47,760 --> 01:01:49,960
blackout, he would still be able
to keep people safe.

1132
01:01:50,280 --> 01:01:53,760
So doing this job is already
like playing 3D chess at 100

1133
01:01:53,760 --> 01:01:56,680
miles an hour.
So adding another layer of work

1134
01:01:56,920 --> 01:02:00,280
just created even more fatigue
in an industry where people

1135
01:02:00,280 --> 01:02:02,920
already pushed to the brink.
So it just raises the level of

1136
01:02:02,920 --> 01:02:04,160
danger.
So if we can go through these

1137
01:02:04,160 --> 01:02:06,760
clips, I think they're really
illuminating about what the air

1138
01:02:06,760 --> 01:02:08,600
traffic controller experience
is.

1139
01:02:10,080 --> 01:02:15,600
So I had been working for in the
operation for roughly 3 hours

1140
01:02:15,600 --> 01:02:21,240
ish at the time of the incident.
Typically I try not to work

1141
01:02:21,240 --> 01:02:23,720
myself or anyone else longer
than two hours.

1142
01:02:24,120 --> 01:02:27,280
It's just been my experience
that after that 2 hour mark,

1143
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:33,280
your mental acuity begins to
diminish a little bit because

1144
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:37,000
you it's fatigue, you get tired.
In my mind, if we are expected

1145
01:02:37,000 --> 01:02:39,920
to lose radar, there is an
operational advantage or a

1146
01:02:39,920 --> 01:02:44,000
necessity to use a combination
of the two to effectively

1147
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:47,320
separate aircraft and to ensure
that were you to lose radar and

1148
01:02:47,320 --> 01:02:50,920
radios again that you're not
going to have a catastrophic of

1149
01:02:50,920 --> 01:02:52,800
that.
So all that said to say, yes,

1150
01:02:52,800 --> 01:02:55,320
you, you, you do have a certain
way to do it.

1151
01:02:55,440 --> 01:02:57,920
The way I did it was the way
that worked for me that

1152
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:02,080
increased my workload, which led
to me having a close call.

1153
01:03:02,160 --> 01:03:07,640
So a nose to nose situation.
The amount of trauma that they

1154
01:03:07,640 --> 01:03:10,560
deal with, even from something
like a blackout, you know, is,

1155
01:03:10,560 --> 01:03:13,600
is really, really extreme.
And the amount of stress that

1156
01:03:13,600 --> 01:03:16,120
they have to handle.
And then what, being completely

1157
01:03:16,120 --> 01:03:19,560
short staffed and knowing that
the buck stops with you and that

1158
01:03:19,560 --> 01:03:21,920
if you don't show up to work,
then there's going to be a

1159
01:03:21,920 --> 01:03:25,080
massive death toll basically.
I mean, obviously I don't need

1160
01:03:25,080 --> 01:03:28,760
to tell anyone here that the
amount of money that's being

1161
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:32,840
spent every single day on
killing Iranians and

1162
01:03:32,840 --> 01:03:35,680
Palestinians, the amount of
money that's spent and you could

1163
01:03:35,880 --> 01:03:39,080
do a massive hiring.
We need massive hiring of air

1164
01:03:39,080 --> 01:03:41,080
traffic controllers and a
massive investment in the

1165
01:03:41,080 --> 01:03:42,800
crumbling system of air traffic
control.

1166
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,040
Like that's just obvious to
anyone.

1167
01:03:45,240 --> 01:03:49,120
Bear in mind, we're coming off a
year where the Trump

1168
01:03:49,120 --> 01:03:54,400
administration under tech bro
Elon Musk got rid of a whole

1169
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,400
bunch of FAA safety inspectors
and regulators.

1170
01:03:58,920 --> 01:04:01,440
So these are all disasters
waiting to happen.

1171
01:04:01,520 --> 01:04:04,560
And it's really testament to the
dedication of these men and

1172
01:04:04,560 --> 01:04:09,600
women who have one of the
hardest jobs that is imaginable.

1173
01:04:09,800 --> 01:04:12,920
So since we're talking about
greed and criminality, I want to

1174
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:15,560
talk about Boeing next.
Particularly, I want to talk

1175
01:04:15,560 --> 01:04:20,840
about this 737 Max crashes back
in 2018 and 2019.

1176
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:26,000
That was Lion Air Flight 610 on
October 29th, 2018, and

1177
01:04:26,000 --> 01:04:30,160
Ethiopian Airlines Flight 302 on
March 10th, 2019.

1178
01:04:30,160 --> 01:04:32,800
But I want to talk a little bit
about Boeing first, because

1179
01:04:32,800 --> 01:04:37,080
Boeing was very much considered
the gold standard of American

1180
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,000
industrialism.
It kind of helped to

1181
01:04:39,000 --> 01:04:42,080
revolutionize global travel.
And then, of course, you have

1182
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,960
the Clinton era, and that was a
period where Boeing merged with

1183
01:04:46,960 --> 01:04:50,880
McDonnell Douglas.
It was 1997 and safety and

1184
01:04:50,880 --> 01:04:54,040
precision just went out the
window, went out the the square

1185
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:58,120
windows, not the round windows.
And this was when Boeing moved

1186
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,720
its headquarters away from its
manufacturing base.

1187
01:05:00,720 --> 01:05:03,880
It shifted to being shareholder
focused.

1188
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,920
They started to create this
culture of of quote, UN quote

1189
01:05:06,920 --> 01:05:09,840
bean counters, you know, the
bureaucrats and the financiers

1190
01:05:09,840 --> 01:05:12,120
who are obsessed with cutting
costs.

1191
01:05:12,120 --> 01:05:15,880
And so they started to pivot to
stock buybacks and cost cutting

1192
01:05:15,880 --> 01:05:18,920
where safety was kind of like
seen as this barrier to

1193
01:05:18,920 --> 01:05:21,440
efficiency.
So I was looking at buyback

1194
01:05:21,440 --> 01:05:24,000
fever.
And just for some context,

1195
01:05:24,000 --> 01:05:28,240
buyback fever and Boeing was
between 2013 and 2019.

1196
01:05:28,240 --> 01:05:32,840
And Boeing used its cash to
repurchase its own shares on the

1197
01:05:32,840 --> 01:05:36,880
open market, which artificially
inflates the stock price by

1198
01:05:36,880 --> 01:05:39,080
reducing the supply of available
shares.

1199
01:05:39,560 --> 01:05:44,280
And during those six years,
Boeing spent $43.5 billion on

1200
01:05:44,280 --> 01:05:48,400
the buybacks.
It represented 100% of its total

1201
01:05:48,400 --> 01:05:52,400
profits during that period.
And that money could have been

1202
01:05:52,480 --> 01:05:55,880
funding an entirely new modern
airplane from scratch.

1203
01:05:55,920 --> 01:06:01,040
Instead, Boeing chose to save
money to basically Jerry rig the

1204
01:06:01,120 --> 01:06:07,120
decades old 737 airframe and
turn it into the Max lane using

1205
01:06:07,120 --> 01:06:09,480
this secretive software called
MCAS.

1206
01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:13,280
MCAS to basically hide the
instability from the pilots.

1207
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:17,280
And that was the software that
malfunctioned and drove 2 planes

1208
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:21,040
into the ground and killed a
total of 346 people.

1209
01:06:21,320 --> 01:06:26,840
Yeah, the 737 is a venerable old
plane introduced in the 60s.

1210
01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:29,400
It's a great plane.
I don't like even calling it the

1211
01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:31,880
737 Max.
I just going to call it the Max

1212
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,560
because I don't want to
associate it with that plane.

1213
01:06:34,680 --> 01:06:38,360
And what happened is, well,
first of all, I think you're

1214
01:06:38,360 --> 01:06:42,840
right to point to the McDonnell
Douglas buyout merger in 97.

1215
01:06:42,840 --> 01:06:46,040
Because anything you read about
Boeing in the last 20 years or

1216
01:06:46,040 --> 01:06:48,800
more will tell you is that
something has changed in the

1217
01:06:48,800 --> 01:06:52,240
culture of the company where
engineering has gone out the

1218
01:06:52,240 --> 01:06:55,160
window in favor of what you
called it.

1219
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:58,280
The bean counters and the guys
who are basically involved in

1220
01:06:58,280 --> 01:07:02,040
financial chicanery of one kind
or another to just make more

1221
01:07:02,040 --> 01:07:05,200
money as opposed to obviously
it's a company that wants to

1222
01:07:05,200 --> 01:07:07,400
make money, but you're making
money because you build some of

1223
01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,600
the best planes in the world.
And So what happened is in the

1224
01:07:11,800 --> 01:07:16,720
early mid twenty 10s, Airbus,
which is a European conglomerate

1225
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:19,600
that competes with Boeing,
announced that they're

1226
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:23,440
introducing a new plane called
the A321 Neo.

1227
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:29,440
Now what you have to know is the
A320 and the A321 are the

1228
01:07:29,440 --> 01:07:33,760
competitors to the 737.
They're the Airbus competitors

1229
01:07:33,760 --> 01:07:36,080
to the 737.
And this is going to matter in a

1230
01:07:36,080 --> 01:07:39,920
minute where this the 737 was
introduced in the 60's, the A320

1231
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,080
was introduced in 1987.
And the reason that matters is

1232
01:07:44,200 --> 01:07:48,560
when the 737 was introduced, the
size of the engines were

1233
01:07:48,560 --> 01:07:53,000
smaller.
And so the clearance, the high

1234
01:07:53,000 --> 01:07:59,600
clearance of the 737 is lower
than the A320 or 321 when it was

1235
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:03,120
introduced in 1987, where the
size of the engines were bigger

1236
01:08:03,280 --> 01:08:06,360
with an anticipation by Airbus
that they would get bigger still

1237
01:08:06,360 --> 01:08:10,440
as time progressed.
So the 321 neo was going to

1238
01:08:10,440 --> 01:08:14,040
introduce this new powerful
engine that was going to give it

1239
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:18,120
a much longer range.
They could put it on the 3:20

1240
01:08:18,120 --> 01:08:22,880
because it's clearance from the
ground was higher than the 737.

1241
01:08:22,880 --> 01:08:27,840
So what Boeing did in response
was RIP up any plans to build a

1242
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:31,240
new plane and instead said,
we're going to take the

1243
01:08:31,240 --> 01:08:35,800
venerable old 737 and we're just
going to stick new engines on

1244
01:08:35,800 --> 01:08:37,439
it.
Now, there's more to it than

1245
01:08:37,439 --> 01:08:40,600
that, but fundamentally, that's
what it comes down to.

1246
01:08:40,760 --> 01:08:45,279
So the problem with that is if
you just stick the engines on

1247
01:08:45,279 --> 01:08:50,040
the way they're usually are on,
they are so heavy and so big on

1248
01:08:50,040 --> 01:08:52,359
that wings, they're just going
to scrape the ground.

1249
01:08:52,439 --> 01:08:56,359
You literally cannot do that.
So you had to move them forward

1250
01:08:56,359 --> 01:08:58,800
on the wing and up a little.
Well, that changes the

1251
01:08:58,800 --> 01:09:01,399
aerodynamics of the plane.
It makes the plane fly

1252
01:09:01,399 --> 01:09:04,080
differently and you.
Can't just move things all

1253
01:09:04,080 --> 01:09:06,640
around the plane Willy nilly any
way you want.

1254
01:09:06,640 --> 01:09:09,840
Yeah, it'll fly, just it's going
to change the aerodynamics of

1255
01:09:09,840 --> 01:09:12,040
the plane and especially when
it's taking off.

1256
01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:14,640
Remember the landings and the
takeoffs are the most dangerous

1257
01:09:14,640 --> 01:09:17,200
parts of a flight.
When it's taking off, it has a

1258
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,720
tendency to pitch the nose up,
which is can be dangerous

1259
01:09:20,720 --> 01:09:24,240
because if your angle of attack
is too high and it's just a

1260
01:09:24,240 --> 01:09:26,479
couple of degrees we're talking
about here, it's not massive.

1261
01:09:26,479 --> 01:09:29,200
It can cause you to lose
airspeed and possibly stall.

1262
01:09:29,680 --> 01:09:34,040
So to fix this hardware problem,
they wrote up a software that

1263
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,960
they had already been using in
some military aircraft called M

1264
01:09:37,960 --> 01:09:39,600
Cast, but they did it
differently.

1265
01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:42,760
And what M Cast was supposed to
do is when it senses that the

1266
01:09:42,760 --> 01:09:46,840
plane was pitching up more than
it should, it's supposed to buy

1267
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:49,120
software, pitch the nose down a
little bit.

1268
01:09:49,439 --> 01:09:52,160
So that's what Boeing was doing,
but I don't want to just put it

1269
01:09:52,160 --> 01:09:55,240
on Boeing here.
What was the FAA doing while all

1270
01:09:55,240 --> 01:09:56,960
this was happening?
Because this was a multi year

1271
01:09:56,960 --> 01:10:01,240
process, the FAA knew everything
Boeing was doing and signed off

1272
01:10:01,240 --> 01:10:03,880
on it.
The FAA was in on this from the

1273
01:10:03,880 --> 01:10:07,960
beginning because their whole
shtick was we need to basically

1274
01:10:07,960 --> 01:10:11,600
compete with Airbus in Europe.
And they had this whole system

1275
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:16,600
where certifications and tests
of systems were to be done by

1276
01:10:16,600 --> 01:10:20,280
Boeing engineers.
In other words, the FAA wasn't

1277
01:10:20,280 --> 01:10:22,320
going to inspect anything Boeing
was doing.

1278
01:10:22,320 --> 01:10:23,880
They're just going to take their
word for it.

1279
01:10:24,320 --> 01:10:26,400
This is like the cops
investigating themselves.

1280
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:29,600
Right now, what were the
airlines doing?

1281
01:10:30,000 --> 01:10:33,400
The airlines were like, we're
either going to buy an A320

1282
01:10:33,600 --> 01:10:37,520
Neos, or if we want us to keep
with Boeing, we don't want a new

1283
01:10:37,520 --> 01:10:40,160
plane.
Because if you produce a variant

1284
01:10:40,160 --> 01:10:43,480
of an existing plane, you can
basically just have an iPad

1285
01:10:43,480 --> 01:10:46,360
session and then you can fly it.
Whereas whereas if it's a new

1286
01:10:46,360 --> 01:10:48,400
plane, you have to go through a
whole system of training,

1287
01:10:48,400 --> 01:10:50,760
including flight simulation and
all this stuff.

1288
01:10:51,040 --> 01:10:56,320
So everybody from Boeing to the
FAA to the airlines themselves,

1289
01:10:56,320 --> 01:11:00,200
we're in on this in the sense of
just give us something, damn it,

1290
01:11:00,200 --> 01:11:02,120
something that we don't have to
train for it.

1291
01:11:02,720 --> 01:11:04,040
That's easy.
Yeah.

1292
01:11:04,080 --> 01:11:05,320
Quote UN quote.
Exactly.

1293
01:11:06,160 --> 01:11:10,520
So then too much fanfare.
The 737 Max is an is announced,

1294
01:11:10,680 --> 01:11:14,160
then it's flying fine for a few
months and then Lion Air in

1295
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:17,520
Indonesia crashes on October 29,
2018.

1296
01:11:17,520 --> 01:11:20,600
As Lola mentioned, you have to
also understand that there was a

1297
01:11:21,120 --> 01:11:26,440
lot of fucking racism on this.
Everybody ignored that crash and

1298
01:11:26,440 --> 01:11:29,320
the reason they ignored it is
because it is true.

1299
01:11:29,360 --> 01:11:33,040
Indonesia has a bad record with
planes and maintenance.

1300
01:11:33,720 --> 01:11:37,320
Then a few months later,
Ethiopian Airlines Flight 3 O2

1301
01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:40,000
crashes.
Now Ethiopian Airlines has an

1302
01:11:40,000 --> 01:11:42,640
excellent record.
It's the second crash and you

1303
01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:46,800
couldn't just ignore it anymore.
And so the truth finally came

1304
01:11:46,800 --> 01:11:48,840
out about this Jerry rigged
thing.

1305
01:11:48,880 --> 01:11:53,200
And here's what was happening.
Nobody told the pilots that

1306
01:11:53,200 --> 01:11:56,040
there was a software system.
The pilots, even when they did

1307
01:11:56,040 --> 01:11:59,480
the iPad training, had no idea
that the software system existed

1308
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:02,320
or how to turn it off.
So what happened with both of

1309
01:12:02,320 --> 01:12:05,640
these flights, and it became
more sort of clear with the

1310
01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:10,360
Ethiopian Airlines flight is the
plane is taking off the nose is

1311
01:12:10,560 --> 01:12:14,680
is actually not pitching high.
It's actually under control.

1312
01:12:15,000 --> 01:12:18,480
It's actually flying normally.
But M cast kicks in.

1313
01:12:18,840 --> 01:12:20,880
And remember this is a plane
just taking off.

1314
01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:23,480
So it's not too far from the
ground and it's full of fuel.

1315
01:12:23,560 --> 01:12:27,920
And if M cast pitches the nose
down, the pilots try basically

1316
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:31,400
to retake control of the plane
to pitch the nose back up so

1317
01:12:31,400 --> 01:12:34,320
they can keep taking off.
It works for a few seconds or a

1318
01:12:34,320 --> 01:12:38,520
minute and then the dam system
kicks in again and it pitches

1319
01:12:38,520 --> 01:12:40,400
the nose down.
But they didn't know enough.

1320
01:12:40,400 --> 01:12:42,400
They didn't know that it was.
They didn't even know the

1321
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,360
software existed.
They had no idea what was

1322
01:12:44,360 --> 01:12:46,480
happening.
So they wouldn't have any idea

1323
01:12:46,480 --> 01:12:48,720
how to like disable it at any
point.

1324
01:12:48,840 --> 01:12:52,520
And so every time they take back
control of the plane, it lets

1325
01:12:52,520 --> 01:12:55,360
them for a few seconds and then
it pitches the nose down.

1326
01:12:55,400 --> 01:12:58,160
And every time that happens,
you're losing altitude.

1327
01:12:58,360 --> 01:13:00,520
You're losing altitude until you
finally crash.

1328
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,320
They must have been freaking out
because they don't even know why

1329
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:05,600
that's happening.
No, planes don't do that.

1330
01:13:06,080 --> 01:13:07,760
There was no problems with the
engines.

1331
01:13:07,760 --> 01:13:10,200
There was no problems with, you
know, no engine fellow or

1332
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:11,400
anything.
Nothing.

1333
01:13:11,480 --> 01:13:14,640
As far as they were concerned,
they died not understanding what

1334
01:13:14,640 --> 01:13:15,920
the hell was happening.
Wow.

1335
01:13:16,280 --> 01:13:18,600
And it's really devastating
because if you look at some of

1336
01:13:18,600 --> 01:13:23,480
the details from the crashes,
the pilots are in this complete

1337
01:13:23,480 --> 01:13:26,120
tug of war with the system.
You know, like you were saying,

1338
01:13:26,200 --> 01:13:28,480
it's like 20 times it with Lion
Air.

1339
01:13:28,480 --> 01:13:30,840
They're trying to pitch up and
it keeps pitching down and they

1340
01:13:30,840 --> 01:13:33,920
have no idea what's going on.
And it's just, it's so

1341
01:13:33,920 --> 01:13:37,040
incredibly devastating.
But then of course, what's even

1342
01:13:37,040 --> 01:13:39,920
more devastating is the cover up
that happened.

1343
01:13:40,200 --> 01:13:41,600
Yeah.
And, and I've seen many

1344
01:13:41,600 --> 01:13:44,240
documentaries on this and I got
to tell you there are a lot of

1345
01:13:44,240 --> 01:13:46,920
them are kind of wanting because
they'll talk about the

1346
01:13:46,920 --> 01:13:50,600
criminality of Boeing, but a lot
of them give a pass to the FAA.

1347
01:13:51,720 --> 01:13:55,160
They were aware of what was
going on and it's their job to

1348
01:13:55,320 --> 01:13:57,120
regulate and make sure this
stuff is safe.

1349
01:13:57,200 --> 01:14:00,880
The FAA was aware that Boeing
was putting engines that are

1350
01:14:00,880 --> 01:14:04,480
were too big to put in the
normal place onto the wings of

1351
01:14:04,480 --> 01:14:07,280
those planes.
And FAA knew FAA didn't do it at

1352
01:14:07,280 --> 01:14:10,160
any of their own inspections or
any of their own carry out any

1353
01:14:10,280 --> 01:14:13,720
of their own tests on the plane.
They just took Boeing's word for

1354
01:14:13,720 --> 01:14:15,320
it.
And the airlines didn't want any

1355
01:14:15,320 --> 01:14:16,520
inspections.
That's the other thing.

1356
01:14:16,520 --> 01:14:19,120
The airlines did not want any
inspections because they didn't

1357
01:14:19,120 --> 01:14:21,640
want to have their pilots go
through training.

1358
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:23,320
Yeah.
And the Federal Aviation

1359
01:14:23,320 --> 01:14:27,040
Administration, it is the
primary body that's responsible

1360
01:14:27,040 --> 01:14:30,840
for Civil Aviation safety in the
US It's under the Department of

1361
01:14:31,040 --> 01:14:34,320
Transportation.
And there's a revolving door

1362
01:14:34,320 --> 01:14:37,040
between the FAA and the airline
executives.

1363
01:14:37,480 --> 01:14:39,960
Like you said, the companies
perform their own safety

1364
01:14:39,960 --> 01:14:43,480
certifications.
It is a a loyal partner to the

1365
01:14:43,480 --> 01:14:46,600
airline oligarchs.
And so sometimes you'll hear

1366
01:14:46,600 --> 01:14:50,200
like, oh, the FAA used to
operate under this dual mandate

1367
01:14:50,200 --> 01:14:53,440
because the so-called dual
mandate was to oversee aviation

1368
01:14:53,440 --> 01:14:55,880
safety and promote the aviation
industry.

1369
01:14:56,280 --> 01:14:59,360
And then they modified it
slightly so that they weren't

1370
01:14:59,360 --> 01:15:02,640
quote UN quote promoting the
aviation industry, but they

1371
01:15:02,640 --> 01:15:05,000
still do.
The FAA has become I thought you

1372
01:15:05,040 --> 01:15:06,160
were.
Going to say they remove the

1373
01:15:06,200 --> 01:15:08,000
other part.
Exactly.

1374
01:15:08,000 --> 01:15:12,360
I mean, it seems like it because
the FAA has become so captured

1375
01:15:12,360 --> 01:15:15,840
by monopoly interests.
It is completely corrupt and

1376
01:15:15,920 --> 01:15:18,080
there's really no checks and
balances.

1377
01:15:18,080 --> 01:15:20,760
You mentioned in the
introduction the crash in

1378
01:15:20,760 --> 01:15:25,000
January 2025 where the military
helicopter hit, crashed into a

1379
01:15:25,040 --> 01:15:28,360
civilian airplane.
The National Transportation

1380
01:15:28,360 --> 01:15:32,280
Safety Board or NTSB, which is a
whole other department whose

1381
01:15:32,280 --> 01:15:35,120
main task is to figure out why
planes crashed.

1382
01:15:35,240 --> 01:15:40,280
Basically their final report on
that was furious or as furious

1383
01:15:40,280 --> 01:15:43,560
as a bureaucrats can be toward
the FAA.

1384
01:15:43,760 --> 01:15:47,800
Because what their main
complaint was, the FAA has known

1385
01:15:47,800 --> 01:15:51,560
for years and years and years
that the vertical clearance

1386
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:55,160
between civilian planes and
military helicopters that are

1387
01:15:55,160 --> 01:15:59,440
flying this route is too small
and an and there were so many

1388
01:15:59,440 --> 01:16:03,480
near misses and an accident is
bound to happen and did nothing.

1389
01:16:03,600 --> 01:16:06,680
That's the FAA.
No, I'm sure there are people in

1390
01:16:06,680 --> 01:16:10,400
the FAA that are adamant and
devoted to the safety and things

1391
01:16:10,400 --> 01:16:14,280
like that, but a lot of them
just got fired by the Trump.

1392
01:16:14,280 --> 01:16:17,880
Administration.
And and and his tech bro Elon.

1393
01:16:18,200 --> 01:16:22,480
But as an institution, as an
agent agency, it really does see

1394
01:16:22,480 --> 01:16:26,600
itself as promoting American
aviation, even if that dual

1395
01:16:26,600 --> 01:16:29,480
mandate no longer exists.
It on paper.

1396
01:16:29,480 --> 01:16:32,560
In reality it does and.
I wish the US government cared

1397
01:16:32,560 --> 01:16:35,520
about helping me as much as it
cares about helping very rich

1398
01:16:35,520 --> 01:16:37,400
companies.
That's not why the US government

1399
01:16:37,400 --> 01:16:38,880
exists.
The US government couldn't give

1400
01:16:38,880 --> 01:16:41,080
a flying fuck about you or me.
Clearly.

1401
01:16:41,440 --> 01:16:45,120
So final question, is there a
way to make airline travel

1402
01:16:45,520 --> 01:16:47,680
reliable and safe and
affordable?

1403
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,400
Is there a solution under
capitalism?

1404
01:16:50,600 --> 01:16:53,320
What do you guys think?
Well, while I was researching

1405
01:16:53,320 --> 01:16:56,360
this, not every country does it
like the US And when I say every

1406
01:16:56,360 --> 01:16:58,840
country, I mean like Western
capitalist countries.

1407
01:16:59,080 --> 01:17:02,720
There are many countries with
nationalized airlines or

1408
01:17:02,760 --> 01:17:05,080
airlines that are treated as
Public Utilities.

1409
01:17:05,320 --> 01:17:08,240
So I think that's one way we
could approach it differently

1410
01:17:08,240 --> 01:17:11,680
within capitalism.
I can think of things and it

1411
01:17:11,680 --> 01:17:16,120
mainly involves the workforce is
stronger unions.

1412
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,880
I mean, one of the one of the
dichotomies is the unionization

1413
01:17:18,880 --> 01:17:22,080
rate in the airline industry is
actually slightly higher today

1414
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:27,800
than it was pre 1978, but the
power of the unions is far lower

1415
01:17:27,800 --> 01:17:31,040
than it used to be.
Just to give you a small example

1416
01:17:31,440 --> 01:17:35,720
that I think was a turning
point, in 1997, American airline

1417
01:17:35,720 --> 01:17:39,920
pilots went on strike and
Democrat Bill Clinton broke

1418
01:17:39,920 --> 01:17:43,560
their strike because pilots in
the airline industry falls under

1419
01:17:43,560 --> 01:17:48,000
the National Railway Labor Act,
which basically allows the

1420
01:17:48,000 --> 01:17:50,560
government to force them back to
work.

1421
01:17:51,080 --> 01:17:53,480
So in a certain sense, it
captures the contradiction here.

1422
01:17:53,520 --> 01:17:57,240
They fall under the RLA, the
Railway Labor Act, and can be

1423
01:17:57,240 --> 01:18:01,280
forced back to work because at a
certain level it is seen as a

1424
01:18:01,840 --> 01:18:05,560
public utility, but it's not
treated as a public utility.

1425
01:18:05,800 --> 01:18:09,760
It's treated as basically go out
and make as much money as you

1426
01:18:09,760 --> 01:18:13,640
can for the corporations.
One of the things the airline

1427
01:18:13,640 --> 01:18:16,720
Workers Union should be
demanding is RIP up the RLA, get

1428
01:18:16,720 --> 01:18:20,120
rid of it.
I think you need unions that are

1429
01:18:20,120 --> 01:18:22,960
willing to fight.
And we've been talking a lot

1430
01:18:22,960 --> 01:18:27,840
about the pilots and rightly so.
But I want to focus a bit on the

1431
01:18:27,840 --> 01:18:33,080
mechanics, which is the one area
where unionization is the

1432
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:38,080
weakest among airline workers.
And part of that is because of

1433
01:18:38,080 --> 01:18:42,480
things like outsourcing to
cheaper labor or cheaper areas.

1434
01:18:42,480 --> 01:18:45,680
But there has to be a drive to
unionize these mechanics.

1435
01:18:45,760 --> 01:18:49,440
And they have to have the right
and ability to say, I'm not

1436
01:18:49,440 --> 01:18:51,600
going to do it this way.
This is wrong.

1437
01:18:52,040 --> 01:18:54,880
This plane is not air worthy.
I'm not going to check it off to

1438
01:18:54,880 --> 01:18:57,680
let it fly.
They have to have the the

1439
01:18:57,680 --> 01:19:01,720
ability to do that and know that
the union will back them up.

1440
01:19:02,320 --> 01:19:05,720
And one of the ways to do that
is what's called industrial

1441
01:19:05,720 --> 01:19:08,480
unionism.
You have a situation right now

1442
01:19:08,480 --> 01:19:11,040
where the pilots have a union,
the flight attendants have a

1443
01:19:11,040 --> 01:19:13,320
union, the mechanics have.
I don't know actually.

1444
01:19:13,320 --> 01:19:15,320
It's not a union, it's multiple
unions.

1445
01:19:16,000 --> 01:19:19,560
Fuck that shit man.
There should be 1 union of

1446
01:19:19,560 --> 01:19:24,880
airline workers, from the pilots
to the janitors, the cleaners

1447
01:19:24,880 --> 01:19:29,000
who clean the planes from the
top to the bottom, 1 union.

1448
01:19:29,200 --> 01:19:31,560
And when one walks out, you all
walk out.

1449
01:19:31,920 --> 01:19:34,680
And when one goes back to work,
you all go back to work.

1450
01:19:34,880 --> 01:19:36,720
And that is an exercise of
power.

1451
01:19:36,720 --> 01:19:40,360
And it also, while at the same
time I'm saying, I think Pilot

1452
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:42,000
should be part of the labor
aristocracy.

1453
01:19:42,040 --> 01:19:44,760
It'll cut against the certain
arrogance that comes with that.

1454
01:19:44,800 --> 01:19:47,840
Yeah, the divides.
You are part of the same union.

1455
01:19:47,840 --> 01:19:50,960
That includes the mechanics, the
cleaners, the flight attendants.

1456
01:19:51,120 --> 01:19:54,240
You're all one union.
Yeah, I think that's what's so

1457
01:19:54,240 --> 01:19:57,400
criminal about a lot of the
leadership of the airline

1458
01:19:57,400 --> 01:20:00,280
unions, because the world
economy can't function without

1459
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:03,360
air transport and they.
We have so much social power,

1460
01:20:03,360 --> 01:20:07,320
but the leadership of the
airline unions is always letting

1461
01:20:07,520 --> 01:20:11,480
the government and the airline
carriers call the shots, and

1462
01:20:11,480 --> 01:20:13,800
that includes on safety and
everything else.

1463
01:20:13,800 --> 01:20:16,880
We we heard Sully speak about a
40% pay cut.

1464
01:20:17,080 --> 01:20:18,640
No union should be agreeing to
that.

1465
01:20:19,120 --> 01:20:22,240
And that's kind of why I feel
like the airline industry is

1466
01:20:22,240 --> 01:20:27,400
such a clear expression of how
deeply irrational the capitalist

1467
01:20:27,400 --> 01:20:30,920
system is that, I mean, I, I
agree with you that stronger

1468
01:20:30,920 --> 01:20:33,960
unions and control of safety and
and stuff like that.

1469
01:20:34,240 --> 01:20:38,360
But it just feels like you need
a completely different economic

1470
01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,680
system that's based on
centralized planning, that's

1471
01:20:41,680 --> 01:20:45,280
under a workers government so
that you don't have airline

1472
01:20:45,280 --> 01:20:50,000
travel under the grip of private
owners and the profit motive

1473
01:20:50,200 --> 01:20:51,760
essentially.
I agree.

1474
01:20:51,760 --> 01:20:54,880
But one of the ways to get there
is for the workers.

1475
01:20:54,960 --> 01:20:57,120
And in this case we're talking
about airline workers to have a

1476
01:20:57,120 --> 01:20:59,960
sense of their power, right?
Because that's not going to just

1477
01:21:00,280 --> 01:21:02,000
happen having a workers
government.

1478
01:21:02,000 --> 01:21:04,000
It's not going to just happen
having workers with a sense of

1479
01:21:04,000 --> 01:21:06,360
their power.
That requires a leadership

1480
01:21:06,360 --> 01:21:09,520
that's willing to say no and
we're going to challenge.

1481
01:21:09,520 --> 01:21:13,760
Fight back and fight back.
And it's really when workers

1482
01:21:13,760 --> 01:21:17,440
have a sense of their power that
they can then look beyond their

1483
01:21:17,440 --> 01:21:20,320
immediate environs or the social
system that they're in and say,

1484
01:21:20,320 --> 01:21:22,760
well, if we run this shit, why
don't we just run the whole of

1485
01:21:22,760 --> 01:21:25,960
society?
As an aside, they keep talking

1486
01:21:25,960 --> 01:21:29,280
about how AI is going to take
over everybody's jobs.

1487
01:21:29,640 --> 01:21:32,440
I mean, I don't believe it, but
leaving that aside, one of the

1488
01:21:32,440 --> 01:21:35,680
most useless jobs that it can
happily take over is that of

1489
01:21:35,680 --> 01:21:39,680
ACEO.
The easiest amongst all jobs.

1490
01:21:40,040 --> 01:21:41,760
Really.
What does a capitalist actually

1491
01:21:41,760 --> 01:21:42,520
do?
Seriously.

1492
01:21:42,520 --> 01:21:44,720
I mean as they as if they can
train a a.

1493
01:21:44,760 --> 01:21:47,120
Robot to.
Lay people off, then we're ready

1494
01:21:47,120 --> 01:21:49,280
to go.
So Ezra, do you think that we

1495
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:53,360
are on the verge of a another
potential crisis in the airline

1496
01:21:53,360 --> 01:21:55,560
industry?
Yes, and I think it has to do

1497
01:21:55,560 --> 01:21:58,000
with the war in Iran as we're
recording this.

1498
01:21:58,480 --> 01:21:59,880
God knows what will happen
tomorrow.

1499
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:03,960
Talks between the US and Iran
have predictably fallen apart,

1500
01:22:04,280 --> 01:22:10,000
and the wise leadership of Trump
has announced that in response

1501
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:13,600
to Iran controlling the Strait
of Hormuz, he's going to

1502
01:22:13,600 --> 01:22:17,800
blockade the Strait of Hormuz.
I mean, you can make fun of it

1503
01:22:17,800 --> 01:22:22,400
and we should, but what he's
saying is I am cutting off all

1504
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:26,480
oil supplies coming out of out.
Of the Yay Make America great

1505
01:22:26,480 --> 01:22:30,120
again.
And, you know, I saw the speaker

1506
01:22:30,120 --> 01:22:33,320
of the Iranian parliament issue
a tweet saying if this happens,

1507
01:22:33,320 --> 01:22:37,280
Americans are going to be
nostalgic for $5 a gallon gas.

1508
01:22:37,480 --> 01:22:40,400
And I think that's, I think
that's true.

1509
01:22:40,480 --> 01:22:43,400
God, just kill me now.
Yeah, so all the airline ticket,

1510
01:22:43,600 --> 01:22:47,000
airline tick travel is about to
get 1000 times more expensive

1511
01:22:47,000 --> 01:22:49,320
too, Yeah.
Or there's going to be fewer

1512
01:22:49,320 --> 01:22:54,680
people flying, which means more
layoffs and and another fucking

1513
01:22:54,920 --> 01:22:58,160
another fucking bailout.
Another bailout and then maybe

1514
01:22:58,160 --> 01:23:00,800
sucking up more small companies
or something like that.

1515
01:23:00,800 --> 01:23:02,400
So more mergers and
acquisitions.

1516
01:23:03,520 --> 01:23:07,280
So Cam, given that you went, you
dug into like how airline travel

1517
01:23:07,280 --> 01:23:11,160
was before, what would have been
the plane that you would have

1518
01:23:11,160 --> 01:23:14,000
wanted to go on before
deregulation?

1519
01:23:14,000 --> 01:23:18,080
So TWA used to do a little thing
called an accent tour.

1520
01:23:18,080 --> 01:23:22,440
And on this accent tour they had
a theme based on a country.

1521
01:23:22,640 --> 01:23:27,160
So for the British accent tour,
the stewardesses would dress up

1522
01:23:27,160 --> 01:23:30,280
as wenches and they would give
you beans and toast.

1523
01:23:30,320 --> 01:23:33,720
And because it's called an
accent tour, I must imagine that

1524
01:23:33,720 --> 01:23:36,000
the flight attendants are
pretending to have accents,

1525
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:39,440
otherwise it wouldn't be good.
So I have to imagine how great

1526
01:23:39,440 --> 01:23:42,040
the Asian flights were with
those stewardesses hitting those

1527
01:23:42,280 --> 01:23:44,640
Asian accents.
And who knows, they might have

1528
01:23:44,640 --> 01:23:47,160
had some Swahili tours where
everybody did blackface because

1529
01:23:47,160 --> 01:23:50,640
it was the 50s and you don't
know exactly what's happening

1530
01:23:50,640 --> 01:23:52,440
that you know, what those
hunkies are getting into.

1531
01:23:52,720 --> 01:23:53,920
So yeah, I'll take the accent
tour.

1532
01:23:53,920 --> 01:23:55,520
Thank you.
You wouldn't.

1533
01:23:55,520 --> 01:23:57,200
You wanted to go on the accent
tour with the.

1534
01:23:57,200 --> 01:23:59,560
Yeah, you don't want to see you
don't see the accent tour.

1535
01:23:59,560 --> 01:24:02,000
Oh, they also had one that was
based on an English hunt.

1536
01:24:02,000 --> 01:24:06,280
And over the loud speakers they
would play dog barking and like,

1537
01:24:07,360 --> 01:24:10,600
like whistles and stuff.
Don't you want some calming dog

1538
01:24:10,600 --> 01:24:12,760
barking ambiance on your
airplane ride?

1539
01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:16,200
It's nuts.
All right, so who did we punch

1540
01:24:16,200 --> 01:24:19,960
up to in this episode?
So my punch up is for the

1541
01:24:19,960 --> 01:24:23,640
executives of these airline
industries who don't give a shit

1542
01:24:23,640 --> 01:24:27,040
about safety, people are dying,
who don't give a shit about

1543
01:24:27,040 --> 01:24:29,880
their workers making living
wages, who don't give a shit

1544
01:24:29,880 --> 01:24:34,400
about the the Wellness of their
workers at all, and just the

1545
01:24:34,400 --> 01:24:37,840
most greedy, despicable people
in this country.

1546
01:24:37,840 --> 01:24:40,080
Or some of them.
So yeah, fuck the airline

1547
01:24:40,080 --> 01:24:42,520
executives.
I agree with Cam.

1548
01:24:42,520 --> 01:24:46,560
I would just add to that.
Also, punch up to the FAA, which

1549
01:24:46,560 --> 01:24:52,000
has been in bed with these
executives in promoting the most

1550
01:24:52,000 --> 01:24:56,040
unsafe practices.
I would punch up to both parties

1551
01:24:56,160 --> 01:24:59,920
because deregulation was a
Democratic project, the

1552
01:24:59,920 --> 01:25:02,600
Democratic Party and the
crushing of PATCO was Republican

1553
01:25:02,600 --> 01:25:04,520
one.
The industry does not belong to

1554
01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:06,120
one party.
This is actually a very

1555
01:25:06,120 --> 01:25:11,560
bipartisan attacks and both
parties have created the crises

1556
01:25:11,560 --> 01:25:15,360
that were in of lack of
reliability and horrible,

1557
01:25:15,360 --> 01:25:19,920
miserable, crappy passenger
experience and safety problems

1558
01:25:19,920 --> 01:25:21,400
and they're all in each other's
pockets.

1559
01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:25,080
Do make sure to help somebody
put up the luggage over.

1560
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:27,440
There, well say thank you.
If you we all said thank you,

1561
01:25:27,440 --> 01:25:30,000
then you know that's a solution
to everything.

1562
01:25:30,200 --> 01:25:32,960
Make sure to say thank you to
ICE as they're deporting you out

1563
01:25:32,960 --> 01:25:34,760
of the airport.
Yeah, sure.

1564
01:25:34,960 --> 01:25:38,760
Guys, can I say how lovely it
was to do this palate cleanser

1565
01:25:38,760 --> 01:25:42,600
episode where merely hundreds of
people die rather than entire

1566
01:25:42,600 --> 01:25:45,960
classes across the globe?
What a nice break we had from

1567
01:25:45,960 --> 01:25:48,640
the serious stuff.
It was considered a palate

1568
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,640
cleanser episode.
These are Ezra's bedtime

1569
01:25:51,640 --> 01:25:53,120
stories, so thank you for
sharing.

1570
01:25:53,120 --> 01:26:01,960
But.
We don't love anybody who

1571
01:26:02,000 --> 01:26:05,160
doesn't love us.
Thanks for listening to Unwashed

1572
01:26:05,160 --> 01:26:07,680
and Unruly.
It's our 20th episode birthday

1573
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so we can almost buy a beer
legally.

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Follow us so you can listen to
our 21st episode coming up.